Revision as of 19:31, 15 October 2016 by
Juckto (talk) Cryx Heavy Warjack
The murderously aggressive Seethers were created for slaughter, a task they achieve with singular efficiency. These nigh-uncontrollable constructs are more than mere killing machines, though; they are an accomplishment of malign intent. Using the horrific soul drives grafted to their cortexes, these abominations extract energy from the rage of souls bound for endless torment in order to fuel their own dark predations.
Basic Info
| Seether
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| SPD
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Average
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| STR |
Low
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| MAT |
Average
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| RAT |
Low
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| DEF |
Average
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| ARM |
Average
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| Relative HP |
Low
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| Relative Cost |
Conscript
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Weapons & Attacks
- Talon (x2) - Average P+S & reach melee weapon
- Tusks - Low P+S, short reach melee weapon
- Hard Head - This model can add this weapon's POW to its head-butt and slam power attack damage rolls.
Special Abilities
- Warjack - All warjacks share the same set of special rules. Most notably being big and stompy. Click here for a newbie-friendly recap, or click here for the full rules.
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Construct
- Countercharge - When an enemy model advances and ends its movement within 6" of this model and in its LOS, this model can immediately charge it. This model can use Countercharge only once per round and not while engaged.
- Berserk - When this model destroys one or more models with a melee attack during its Combat Action, immediately after the attack is resolved it must make one additional melee attack against another model in its melee range.
- 'Uncontrollable Rage' - This model must run or charge during its activation if it can, unless it is engaging an enemy model. It does this without spending focus. - If the Seether is not engaged and able to, it must run or charge without spending focus.
Thoughts on the Seether
Template:Mk2link
Notable changes from Mk2
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The Seether in a nutshell
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Combos & Synergies
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Drawbacks & Downsides
- Hard Head is almost pointless since Uncontrollable Rage means the Seether can't slam.
Tricks & Tips
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Other
Trivia
Theme Forces this is a member of
Other Cryx models
Rules Clarifications
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Rules Clarification : Open Fist (aka, Power Attack Throw) (Edit)
- Throw ( Edit )
- See also the Throw article for a recap of the core Throw rules.
- If a model is somehow thrown at itself (which can happen with Durst1's feat) it would not move, it would be knocked down, and it would take a standard power attack damage roll but it would not take an additional die for colliding with itself. (Infernal Ruling)
- Because you move the target model between the attack roll and the damage roll, you can get different buffs applied to the two rolls. For instance, if you throw the target in or out of a Flanking model's melee range.
- Incorporeal vs Slammed/Thrown models ( Edit )
- Incorporeal models cannot be moved by someone trying to slam them.
- Slammed models can move through Incorporeal models.
- If they have enough movement to get past them, no dramas.
- If they land on them, you move the Incorporeal model out of the way as per the Rule of Least Disturbance.
- If the Incorporeal model cannot be moved (i.e. it's a flag) then you move the slammed model out of the way, also by the rule of Least Disturbance.
- For the purposes of Collateral Damage, only the model(s) you contacted before you applied the rule of Least Disturbance count as contacted.
- The same logic applies to Throws.
- Collateral Damage
- Collateral damage cannot be boosted and is not considered damage from an attack or model. Refer page 33 of the 2021.08 version of the rules pdf. As a result:
- It doesn't trigger stuff that relies on being hit by an enemy (such as Shock Field) or damaged by an enemy (such as Vengeance).
- It doesn't get bonus damage from stuff that adds to a model's damage roll (such as Signs & Portents or Prey).
- It doesn't matter if the attacker has crippled weapon systems or aspects.
- Throw - Power Attack
- When you make a Throw Power Attack, no other abilities of the Fist weapon (such as Chain Strike) are applied unless they specifically mention Throws. (Locked Thread)
- If you do a Power Attack Throw and you choose to throw the target directly away, no deviation is rolled to determine the final position of the model. (Locked thread)
- A model that cannot be targeted by melee attacks (such as Una2's feat) cannot have models thrown at them, either. (Infernal Ruling)
- Since throwing Model [A] at Model [B] involves making a melee attack roll vs Model [B] which is out of your melee range, it technically breaks a whole bunch of core rules. (Infernal Checking)
- Even though you make a "melee attack roll" vs Model [B] you don't actually make a melee attack vs it. Also, the damage it suffers is from Collateral damage, not from the original attack. So you can't trigger stuff like Snacking from damage you did to Model B.
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Rules Clarification : Hard Head (Edit)
- You can add the POW even if the weapon system is crippled.
- Hard Head doesn't get applied to collateral damage, because that is a separate type of roll. Refer page 45 of the mini rulebook.
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Rules Clarification : Warjack (Edit)
- The Cortex/Induction core rule means a warjack cannot have more than 3 focus at any time (maybe 4 if they're really special).
- Many abilities give out focus and don't state an upper limit (such as Convection and Empower). Despite not stating an upper limit, they are always "hard-limited" by the core rule.
- A warjack can have more than 3 focus during a turn, though. For instance, a knocked down warjack can Power Up and be Allocated 2 focus, then spend 1 to shake knockdown, then another model could Empower it back up to 3.
- Warjacks cannot spend focus outside of their activation. For instance, they can't boost free strikes or trigger Powerful Attack on Broadsides. (Infernal Ruling)
Inert warjacks
- Abilities that say they cannot be used if the model is stationary (such as Shield Guard) cannot be used while a warjack is inert, either. Refer "Warcaster Destruction", page 59 of the core rulebook.
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Rules Clarification : Construct - None yet. (Edit)
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Rules Clarification: : Countercharge (Edit)
(Click Expand to read)
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Timing
- If the moving model has Assault, the Countercharge is resolved before the Assault attack. (Infernal Ruling).
- If the moving model has a rule that resolves "at the end of Normal Movement" (such as Slipstream), the Countercharge is resolved before the other rule. (Infernal Ruling)
- The moving model cannot use an "Any Time" after finishing their advance but before your Countercharge. They can use it only after the Countercharge is resolved.
- If the non-countercharging player has a similar "ends an advance" trigger (such as Admonition) then they can trigger and resolve that from your countercharge movement.
- Example: Model [A] charges, and triggers Countercharge on [B]. Model [B] countercharges, and triggers Admonition on [C].
Resolve Admonition on [C]. Then finish resolving Countercharge on [B]. Then finish model [A]'s activation.
Triggering Countercharge
- You can trigger Countercharge if you're engaging, but not engaged.
- You can trigger Countercharge during your own turn, if your opponent has an ability to move during your turn (such as Admonition).
- Some abilities let you "ignore intervening models when declaring a charge" (such as Flight). Unfortunately, you still need LOS to trigger Countercharge, and it's only after CC is triggered that you actually get to declare a charge. In other words, Flight and Countercharge don't work together for LOS purposes.
- What does trigger Countercharge
- Countercharge triggers off any advance, not just in-activation stuff.
- Standing still but changing facing is an advance.
- What doesn't trigger Countercharge
- Aiming, or forfeiting your movement, is not advancing.
- If a model doesn't move, doesn't change facing, doesn't aim ... does nothing but skips straight ahead to its Combat Action, this is not an advance. (Infernal Ruling)
- Being placed (such as Teleport) is not an advance.
- Involuntary movement (being slammed, thrown, or pushed) is not an advance.
- When a unit is moving, countercharge is triggered on a model-by-model basis. So you can countercharge after any model in the unit has finished its move within range, but you can only countercharge that model who just finished its movement. You can't "save it" until the entire unit finishes moving and then say "I'm going to Countercharge the first guy you moved."
Attacks, Boosting, & Other Triggers
- You only get one attack when making a countercharge, regardless of how many initials you normally have.
- The charge attack damage is only boosted if the Countercharger moved 3" or more, as with a regular charge.
- Countercharge occurs outside of activation so you can't spend fury/focus to boost a countercharge attack, nor buy additional attacks afterwards, not trigger stuff that only happens during your Combat Action (like Berserk).
- Even if you trigger Countercharge during your own activation, for the duration of you resolving the CC it "no longer counts" as being in your activation. (Infernal Ruling)
After the Countercharge
- The countercharging model cannot use any abilities that trigger on "during activation" or "during combat action" (such as Sprint), as Counter Charge is not an activation. (Locked thread)
Other interactions
- Countercharge during your own activation (Countercharge vs Admonition etc) ( Edit )
- You can trigger Countercharge during your own activation, but only if an enemy model moves during your activation. For instance, you move towards a model who has Admonition and they trigger that to try to move away. (You do a normal move, they trigger admonition and move, you trigger countercharge from their admonition-move.)
- However countercharge always counts as being out-of-activation, no matter when you trigger it. (Infernal Ruling)
- As a result, you can't trigger only-during-activation effects (such as Critical Shred & Sustained Attack).
- On the other hand, you can potentially get two charge attacks (one for your normal charge, one for the counter charge). (Infernal Ruling)
This ruling still applies even after the 2018.07 update (Infernal Re-ruling)
- Countercharge plus Admonition
- If a model has both CC and Admonition, it can trigger both at the same time. A model moves nearby, it admonitions away, then countercharges back in.
- Countercharge Inception
- If a model [A] has Countercharge, and it charges an enemy model [B] that has Countercharge and Admonition, then ...
- Model [A] charges and triggers CC and Admo on [B]
- Model [B] Admo moves but before it can resolve its own CC, it triggers CC on [A]
- You now have two models that have triggered CC simultaneously. So the Active player gets to resolve their one first.
- Assault vs Countercharge ( Edit )
- Countercharge & Cavalry ( Edit )
- A model with Countercharge and Cavalry can make Impact Attacks during the countercharge. (Refer "Charges Outside of Activation" in the rulebook).
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Rules Clarification : Berserk (Edit)
- Berserk attacks will generate even more Berserk attacks. You keep going until you miss, something survives, or you run out of targets.
- Berserk grants an additional attack which by definition can only occur during your Combat Action. Therefore Berserk doesn't work on free strikes, impact attacks, etc.
- "Immediately" means you can't save it until later in your activation. Berserk must be resolved at step 14 of the attack sequence (refer Apdx A).
- You cannot use "Any Time" abilities while resolving the original attack, the Berserk attack, or between the attacks. Refer Apdx A.
- Berserk doesn't trigger during a frenzy. (Infernal Ruling)
- Berserk will not trigger if the target uses an ability to move the damage to another model (such as a warlock transfer).
- But it will trigger if they use an ability to move the attack to a different model (such as Grim Salvation).
- Berserk has a weird niche interaction with Agathon's abilities, which you can read here.
- Attack-Generating Abilities (Edit)
- From the core rulebook: When a model is granted more attacks as a result of an attack it made, it gains only one. If two or more special rules would grant the model another attack as a result of making an attack, its controlling player chooses which special rule to apply.
- If you trigger two attack-generating abilities (such as Black Spot and Kill Shot) you choose to resolve one and "lose" the other (unless you trigger it again later).
- If you trigger two attack-generating abilities, and one of them is compulsory (such as Black Spot and Berserk), you must choose to resolve the compulsory one. (Infernal Ruling)
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Rules Clarification : Uncontrollable Rage (Edit)
- You can declare a run then don't move the Seether and don't change its facing. Doing this fulfils the requirements of Uncontrollable Rage and doesn't count as advancing. (Infernal Ruling)
- In other words, a Seether can "run and stay still" if you need to avoid enemy abilities that trigger on "advances and ends movement" (such as Countercharge).
- If the Seether is affected by something that prevents running and charging (such as Lock the Target or having a crippled Movement system) then Uncontrollable Rage doesn't apply. Instead you get a normal activation. (Infernal Ruling)
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