Seether

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Feora2 (theme thoughts) Imperatus (Dawnguard and non-vyros combos)


Cryx Logo.jpg Seether

Cryx Heavy Warjack

The murderously aggressive Seethers were created for slaughter, a task they achieve with singular efficiency. These nigh-uncontrollable constructs are more than mere killing machines, though; they are an accomplishment of malign intent. Using the horrific soul drives grafted to their cortexes, these abominations extract energy from the rage of souls bound for endless torment in order to fuel their own dark predations.

Basic Info

Seether
Missing Info
Seether.jpg
COST {{{cacost}}}
UNIT SIZE {{{casize}}}
FA {{{cafa}}}
Warcaster 0
BASE Large
SPD 6
STR 10
MAT 8
RAT N/A
M.A. N/A
DEF 12
ARM 17
CMD N/A
ESSENCE {{{essence}}}
FOCUS N/A
FURY N/A
THRS N/A
HP 28
F. Field N/A
WJP {{{wjp}}}
WBP {{{wbp}}}
IHP {{{ihp}}}
UNIT SIZE N/A
COST 13
N/A
N/A
FA U
N/A
Warcaster 1
BASE N/A
SPD N/A
STR N/A
MAT N/A
RAT N/A
DEF N/A
ARM N/A
CMD N/A
FOCUS N/A
FURY N/A
THRS N/A
HP N/A
WJP N/A
WBP N/A
UNIT SIZE N/A
COST N/A
FA N/A
N/A
Understanding
the Statblock

Abilities

  • Warjack - All warjacks share the same set of special rules. Most notably being big and stompy. Click the link for a full run-down.
  • Construct - This model is a construct and is not a living model.
  • Countercharge - When an enemy model advances and ends its movement within 6" of this model and in its LOS, this model can immediately charge it. This model can use Countercharge only once per round and not while engaged.
  • Berserk - When this model destroys one or more models with a melee attack during its Combat Action, immediately after the attack is resolved it must make one additional melee attack against another model in its melee range.
  • Uncontrollable Rage - A Seether must run or charge during its activation if it can, unless it is engaging an enemy model. It does this without spending focus.

Weapons

  • Talon (x2) - 1" reach, POW 7, P+S 17 melee weapons
  • Tusks - 1" reach, POW 2, P+S 12 melee weapon
    • Hard Head - This model can add this weapon's POW to its head-butt and slam power attack damage rolls.

Theme Forces


Thoughts on the Seether

The Seether in a nutshell

The Seether bears all the subtleness of a wrecking ball - swing it toward the enemy and watch faces getting wrecked.

Its superb MAT and the special rules will make it able to stand on its own against most infantry, and Berserk will make it a real nightmare against tightly packed formations.

It doesn't fare well in a toe-to-toe fight against enemy heavies unless it gets the alpha and manages to knock out a few systems. Cryx has an abundant way of buffing it up, and/or de-buffing the target.

All in all, he is a decent (but not great) bargain for his points cost and a nice focus-efficient beat-stick in your arsenal, Uncontrollable Rage can be a bit of an Achilles heel, though (explained below).

Combos & Synergies

Non-Caster

  • The Black Industries theme force gives you Carapace so that it won't get shot up so easily before reaching the enemy.
    Also, you can Trample through jamming infantry with much less fear of free strikes (still beware of Weapon Master infantry near the trample lane).
  • The Iron Lich Overseer 'Jack Marshal (aka the Overseether). An expensive combo at 18 points, but relatively popular (in the right army).
    • The ILO gives the Seether Dark Shroud.
    • The Seether still runs/charges for free even when marshalled, so the ILO can use a different 'Jack Marshal ability.
      • Crush (+1 attacks, +2 damage) means the talons can deliver 3 hits, and Dark Shroud means they're at a colossal-level damage output. (Or even 4 hits if you can use the Tusks to trigger Berserk)
      • Hurry (run/charge/power attack, and +2 to-hit on charges/slams) is only useful if either you're already in melee (and Uncontrollable Rage didn't trigger) and want to Trample or Throw; or if you want the +2 to hit on a charge attack.
      • Strike True (+2 to all to-hit rolls) pushes your effective MAT 10.
    • Just be sure to screen your ILO from incoming attacks.

Casters

  • Agathia1's feat works well on Seethers, creating order of activation issues for an opponent facing down potential countercharges. Also the out-of-activation possibilities afforded by Hellwrought can help prevent Seethers from being neutered by back-arc jams.
  • Goreshade1 can get good mileage out of Seethers in his battlegroup. Shadowmancer not only helps protect them on the approach, it also buffs their countercharge with Dark Shroud. Judicious use of Soul Gate can also help mitigate the risk of overextending while setting you up to threaten countercharges from unexpected vectors.
  • Mortenebra1's Overrun spell can help the Seether advance after a successful charge in order to maximize his Berserk attacks.
  • Skarre2 provides Admonition, which has decent synergy with the Seether's countercharge and can make it a tricky piece for your opponent to plan their activations around, especially on her feat turn.

Drawbacks & Downsides

  • DEF 12 for no good reason.
  • It can't walk around a corner and punch someone, it must run or charge instead.
  • Hard Head is a bit pointless since Uncontrollable Rage means the Seether can only declare a Slam if it is engaging a model already, and the chances of you doing that and being able to move 3" are pretty low (unless you want to eat a free strike).
    • The situation is slightly better with Headbutt.

Uncontrollable Rage (UR) - How to Neuter the Seether

  • If your Seether is engaged (an enemy has it in their melee range) but the Seether is not engaging (there is no one in the Seether's melee range) then UR triggers and it must run or charge.
  • An enemy model that runs into a Seether's back arc effectively neuters it.
    UR triggers but he can't charge the model engaging him (because he has no LOS to it). Which leaves you 2 options:
    1. Run/charge something else that's in front of you, and eat a free strike (and if your enemy was smart, they would have used something nasty to threaten the free strike.)
    2. or use your run move to spin in place and waste your activation.

Tricks & Tips

  • If you're going up against a hard target, use your Tusks vs a nearby weak infantry. That'll trigger Berserk giving you a stronger attack vs your main target.
    • You can even kill one or your own troops to trigger Berserk, which can make positioning the Seether easier.
  • If you start your activation engaging, then you're free to walk normally, make normal attacks, Head-butt, Slam, Throw, or Trample through the enemy.
  • Some models cannot be engaged (knocked down targets, scenario objectives, etc) and so Uncontrollable Rage will still trigger even if they're in your melee range.
  • Use the Seether on the flanks. With free runs/charges and 3 initials it can work pretty well vs light/medium targets without focus, so it's no biggie if it accidentally flanks too far and ends up out of your control range.
  • If you somehow get a Trample (despite Uncontrollable Rage) then try to end your trample movement in melee range of something. That way, the models you kill with the Trample will trigger a Berserk attack. But remember that trampling only triggers one instance of berserk no matter how many models you destroy.

Other

Classic sculpt

Trivia

Other Cryx models

Cryx Logo.jpg       Cryx Index       (Edit)            
Battlegroup & Similar
Warcasters

Agathia - Aiakos2 - Asphyxious1 - Asphyxious2 - Asphyxious3 - Coven - Deneghra1 - Deneghra2 - Deneghra3 - Goreshade1 - Goreshade2 - Goreshade3 - Mortenebra1 - Mortenebra2 - Rahera - Scaverous - Skarre1 - Skarre2 - Skarre3 - Sturgis2 - Terminus - Venethrax

Warcaster attachments The Withershadow Combine - Satyxis Blood Priestess - Skarlock Thrall - Madelyn Corbeau (Mercenary)
Other Warjack Controllers Iron Lich Overseer (Marshal) - Aiakos1 (BGC) - Deneghra0 (BGC)
Light

Cankerworm - Deathripper - Defiler - Helldiver - Nightwretch - Ripjaw - Scavenger - Shrike - Stalker

Heavy

Barathrum - Corruptor - Deathjack - Desecrator - Erebus - Harrower - Kharybdis - Inflictor - Leviathan - Malice - Nightmare - Reaper - Seether - Slayer

Colossal Kraken - Sepulcher
Units, Solos, Battle Engines, & Structures
Units - Living BO Boarding Party - BO Ironmongers - BO Smog Belchers - Bloodgorgers - Marauders - Cephalyx Drudges - Cephalyx Overlords - Satyxis Gunslingers - Satyxis Blood Witches - Satyxis Raiders - Scharde Dirge Seers - Scharde Pirates
Units - Undead

Bane Knights - Bane Riders - Bane Warriors - Bile Thralls - Carrion Thralls - Mechanithralls - Necrosurgeon - Revenant Cannon - Revenant Crew - Soulhunters - The Withershadow Combine

Solos - Living/Construct

Aiakos1 - Axiara - Darragh Wrathe - Deneghra0 - Gerlak - Misery Cage - Satyxis Blood Priestess - Satyxis Raider Captain - Severa Blacktide - Warwitch Siren

Solos - Undead

Agrimony - Bane Lord Tartarus - Bloat Thrall - BTO Mobius - Captain Rengrave - Hellslinger - Iron Lich Overseer - Machine Wraith - Necrotech - Pistol Wraith - Scrap Thrall - Skarlock Thrall - Soul Trapper

Battle Engines & Structures Wraith Engine
Theme Forces
Black Industries - Dark Host - The Ghost Fleet - Infernal Machines - Scourge of the Broken Coast - Slaughter Fleet Raiders
Mercenaries
Refer to Who Works for Whom and/or Category: Cryx Mercenary
This index was last updated: 2019.02

Rules Clarifications

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Rules Clarification : Open Fist (aka, Power Attack Throw)     (Edit)

  • Throw - General ( Edit )
    • See also the Throw article for a recap of the core Throw rules.
    • Because you move the target model between the attack roll and the damage roll, you can get different buffs applied to the two rolls. For instance, if you throw the target in or out of a Flanking model's melee range.
  • Throw - Power Attack
    • When you make a Throw Power Attack, no other abilities of the Fist weapon (such as Chain Strike) are applied unless they specifically mention Throws.
    • If you do a Power Attack Throw and you choose to throw the target directly away, no deviation is rolled to determine the final position of the model. (Locked thread)
    • A model that cannot be targeted by melee attacks (such as Una2's feat) cannot have models thrown at them, either. (Infernal Ruling)
    • Unresolved: Since throwing Model [A] at Model [B] involves making a melee attack roll vs Model [B] which is out of your melee range, it technically breaks a whole bunch of core rules. (Infernal Checking)
    • Even though you make a "melee attack roll" vs Model [B] you don't actually make a melee attack vs it. Also, the damage it suffers is from Collateral damage, not from the original attack. So you can't trigger stuff like Snacking from damage you did to Model B.
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Rules Clarification : Hard Head      (Edit)

  • You can add the POW even if the weapon system is crippled.
  • Hard Head doesn't get applied to collateral damage, because that is a separate type of roll. Refer page 45 of the mini rulebook.
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Rules Clarification : Warjack      (Edit)

  • The Cortex/Induction core rule means a warjack cannot have more than 3 focus at any time (maybe 4 if they're really special).
    • Many abilities give out focus and don't state an upper limit (such as Convection and Empower). Despite not stating an upper limit, they are always "hard-limited" by the core rule.
    • A warjack can have more than 3 focus during a turn, though. For instance, a knocked down warjack can Power Up and be Allocated 2 focus, then spend 1 to shake knockdown, then another model could Empower it back up to 3.
  • Warjacks cannot spend focus outside of their activation. For instance, they can't boost free strikes or trigger Powerful Attack on Broadsides. (Infernal Ruling)

Inert warjacks

  • Abilities that say they cannot be used if the model is stationary (such as Shield Guard) cannot be used while a warjack is inert, either. Refer "Warcaster Destruction", page 59 of the core rulebook.

Rules Clarification : Construct - None yet. (Edit)

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Rules Clarification:  : Countercharge      (Edit)
(Click Expand to read)

Triggering Countercharge
  • You can trigger Countercharge if you're engaging, but not engaged.
  • If an enemy ends an advance out of LOS, but you have an ability that lets you "ignore LOS when declaring a charge target" (such as Flight) then that does not let you trigger countercharge. Because you need to meet the countercharge trigger conditions before you can declare a charge.
  • What does trigger Countercharge
    • Countercharge triggers off any advance, not just in-activation stuff.
    • You can trigger Countercharge during your own turn, if your opponent has an ability to move during your turn (such as Admonition).
    • Standing still but changing facing is an advance.
  • What doesn't trigger Countercharge
    • Aiming, or forfeiting your movement, is not advancing.
    • If a model doesn't move, doesn't change facing, doesn't aim ... does nothing but skips straight ahead to its Combat Action, this is not an advance. (Infernal Ruling)
    • Being placed (such as Teleport) is not an advance.
    • Involuntary movement (being slammed, thrown, or pushed) is not an advance.
  • When a unit is moving, countercharge is triggered on a model-by-model basis. So you can countercharge after any model in the unit has finished its move within range, but you can only countercharge that model who just finished its movement. You can't "save it" until the entire unit finishes moving and then say "I'm going to Countercharge the first guy you moved."

What can your opponent do?

  • Once you trigger countercharge, your opponent cannot use a "Any Time" ability until the countercharge is fully resolved. Even though it's their turn.
  • They can trigger their own abilities from your movement (such as Admonition) and/or your attack (such as Shock Field).

Attacks & Boosting

  • You only get one attack when making a countercharge, regardless of how many initials you normally have.
  • You can't spend fury/focus to boost it, or buy additional attacks afterwards. Because you're only allowed to do spend fury/focus during your own activation.
  • The charge attack damage is only boosted if the Countercharger moved 3" or more, as with a regular charge.

After the Countercharge

  • You cannot use any abilities that trigger on "during activation" or "during combat action" (such as Sprint) after a Countercharge, as Counter Charge is not an activation. (Locked thread)

Enemy "Skipping" their movement

  • If your opponent 'forgets' to move their model and didn't declare they're forfeiting movement (they just said "I'm activating this model and making an attack") then do they count as moving or not?
  • Technically the rules don't have a default condition for this, and it becomes a Sportsmanship issue for you to sort out with your opponent.
  • However, the Judges document (which is used to run all official PP events) states that the model officially counts as "Advancing 0 inches" and thus will trigger Counter Charge. Most players follow the Judges document for casual play as well.

Unit with countercharge

  • This applies to Zaadesh2 with Scarab Packs
  • Each model in the unit has its own individual countercharge. They don't have to all countercharge at the same time, and only the specific model within 6" of the trigger will be able to countercharge.
  • If a model is out of formation, it won't be able to countercharge (since it is unable to move out of his normal movement).
  • If a model starts in formation but the countercharge movement takes it out of formation, it won't be able to make the charge attack (but will engage).
  • If several models in the same unit want to countercharge the same model, you fully resolve the counter charge of the first, including the attack, before starting the counter charge of the other(s).
  • If the unit commander countercharges such that the other models become out of formation, they immediately lose the ability to trigger countercharge (because out-of-formation models can't move).

Other interactions

  • Since Countercharge isn't an actual activation, you can't trigger in-activation stuff like Sprint or Quick Work.
    • Exception: Very rarely you can trigger Countercharge during your own activation. For instance your opponent triggers Admonition to try and move away.
  • Countercharge vs. Admonition (etc) ( Edit )
    • You can trigger Countercharge during your own activation - if a model with Admonition (or similar) uses it to (try to) move away.
      • You move, they trigger admonition and move, you trigger countercharge off their admonition-move.
    • In this scenario you may boost Countercharge attacks and trigger only-during-activation effects (such as Critical Shred & Sustained Attack) exactly as if you were in your activation (because you are).
    • Also, you can potentially get two charge attacks (one for your normal charge, one for the counter charge).
  • Countercharge plus Admonition
    • If a model has both CC and Admonition, it can trigger both at the same time. A model moves nearby, it admonitions away, then countercharges back in.
  • Countercharge vs Slipstream ( Edit )
    • Both these abilities trigger at the same time (end of movement). The active player then resolved his first.
    • This can let the Slipstream model place something to block the Countercharge model.
  • Assault vs Countercharge ( Edit )
    • With reference to the Activation Timing (Apdx A), Countercharge occurs at Step 5, and Assault occurs at Step 5 for independent models and Step 6 for units. (Infernal Ruling about the Step 6)
    • So, if a model with Assault finishes its charge movement within range of a model with Countercharge then...
      • If it's an independent model then you need to resolve the Assault shot before making the Countercharge move. This is because both abilities occur at the same time but active player effects are resolved first.
      • But if it's a model belonging to a unit, then you need to resolve the Countercharge immediately, then finish moving the rest of the unit, then start Assault shots.
  • Countercharge & Cavalry ( Edit )
    • A model with Countercharge and Cavalry can make Impact Attacks during the countercharge. (Refer "Charges Outside of Activation" in the rulebook).
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Rules Clarification : Berserk      (Edit)

  • Berserk grants an additional attack which by definition can only occur during your Combat Action. Therefore Berserk doesn't work on free strikes, impact attacks, etc.
  • If Berserk triggers at the same time as another "attack generating" ability (such as Black Spot), Berserk means you must make an attack. But it can be either a Berserk attack or the other one. (Infernal Ruling)
    In other words you can't say "I trigger both Berserk and Black Spot, I choose Black Spot, Black Spot is optional, so I'm not making any more attacks".
  • "Immediately" means you can't save it until later in your activation. Berserk must be resolved at step 14 of the attack sequence (refer Apdx A).
  • You cannot use "Any Time" abilities while resolving the original attack, the Berserk attack, or between the attacks. Refer Apdx A.
  • Berserk doesn't trigger during a frenzy. (Infernal Ruling)
  • Berserk will not trigger if the target uses an ability to move the damage to another model (such as a warlock transfer).
    • But it will trigger if they use an ability to move the attack to a different model (such as Grim Salvation).
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Rules Clarification : Uncontrollable Rage      (Edit)

  • If you declare a run, then don't move the Seether and don't change facing, then you fulfil the requirements of Uncontrollable Rage but don't count as advancing; allowing you to avoid triggering enemy abilities like Countercharge. (Infernal Ruling)
  • If your movement system is crippled, you can't run or charge so Uncontrollable Rage doesn't apply. You can only use your Normal Movement to make a "full advance" (aka "walk").