Seether

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Cryx Logo.jpg Seether

Cryx Heavy Warjack

The murderously aggressive Seethers were created for slaughter, a task they achieve with singular efficiency. These nigh-uncontrollable constructs are more than mere killing machines, though; they are an accomplishment of malign intent. Using the horrific soul drives grafted to their cortexes, these abominations extract energy from the rage of souls bound for endless torment in order to fuel their own dark predations.

Basic Info

Seether
Missing Info
Seether.jpg
COST {{{cacost}}}
UNIT SIZE {{{casize}}}
FA {{{cafa}}}
Warcaster 0
BASE Large
SPD 6
STR 10
MAT 8
RAT N/A
M.A. N/A
DEF 12
ARM 17
CMD N/A
ESSENCE {{{essence}}}
FOCUS N/A
FURY N/A
THRS N/A
HP 28
F. Field N/A
WJP {{{wjp}}}
WBP {{{wbp}}}
IHP {{{ihp}}}
UNIT SIZE N/A
COST 13
N/A
N/A
FA U
N/A
Warcaster 1
BASE N/A
SPD N/A
STR N/A
MAT N/A
RAT N/A
DEF N/A
ARM N/A
CMD N/A
FOCUS N/A
FURY N/A
THRS N/A
HP N/A
WJP N/A
WBP N/A
UNIT SIZE N/A
COST N/A
FA N/A
N/A
Understanding
the Statblock

Abilities

  • Warjack - All warjacks share the same set of special rules. Most notably being big and stompy. Click the link for a full run-down.
  • Construct symbol.jpg Construct
  • Countercharge - When an enemy model advances and ends its movement within 6" of this model and in its LOS, this model can immediately charge it. This model can use Countercharge only once per round and not while engaged.
  • Berserk - When this model destroys one or more models with a melee attack during its Combat Action, immediately after the attack is resolved it must make one additional melee attack against another model in its melee range.
  • Uncontrollable Rage - A Seether must run or charge during its activation if it can, unless it is engaging an enemy model. It does this without spending focus.

Weapons

  • Talon (x2) - 1" reach, POW 7, P+S 17 melee weapons
  • Tusks - 1" reach, POW 2, P+S 12 melee weapon
    • Hard Head - This model can add this weapon's POW to its head-butt and slam power attack damage rolls.

Theme Forces

Thoughts on the Seether

The Seether in a nutshell

The Seether bears all the subtleness of a wrecking ball - swing it toward the enemy and watch faces getting wrecked.

Its superb MAT and the special rules will make it able to stand on its own against most infantry, and Berserk will make it a real nightmare against tightly packed formations.

It doesn't fare well in a toe-to-toe fight against enemy heavies unless it gets the alpha and manages to knock out a few systems. Cryx has an abundant way of buffing it up, and/or de-buffing the target.

All in all, he is a decent (but not great) bargain for his points cost and a nice focus-efficient beat-stick in your arsenal, Uncontrollable Rage can be a bit of an Achilles heel, though (explained below).

Combos & Synergies

Non-Caster

  • The Black Industries theme force gives you Carapace so that it won't get shot up so easily before reaching the enemy.
    Also, you can Trample through jamming infantry with much less fear of free strikes (still beware of Weapon Master infantry near the trample lane).
  • The Iron Lich Overseer 'Jack Marshal (aka the Overseether). An expensive combo at 18 points, but relatively popular (in the right army).
    • The ILO gives the Seether Dark Shroud.
    • The Seether still runs/charges for free even when marshalled, so the ILO can use a different 'Jack Marshal ability.
      • Crush (+1 attacks, +2 damage) means the talons can deliver 3 hits, and Dark Shroud means they're at a colossal-level damage output. (Or even 4 hits if you can use the Tusks to trigger Berserk)
      • Hurry (run/charge/power attack, and +2 to-hit on charges/slams) is only useful if either you're already in melee (and Uncontrollable Rage didn't trigger) and want to Trample or Throw; or if you want the +2 to hit on a charge attack.
      • Strike True (+2 to all to-hit rolls) pushes your effective MAT 10.
    • Just be sure to screen your ILO from incoming attacks.

Casters

  • Scaverous - The main way to neuter the Seether is for your enemy to leave no model for it to charge within its front arc and/or turn it around with Domantion/Befuddle/TK tricks. Old Scavvy can TK enemies into range again or use it to turn the Seether around (And extend it's threat range by 3").
  • Agathia1's feat works well on Seethers, creating order of activation issues for an opponent facing down potential countercharges. Also the out-of-activation possibilities afforded by Hellwrought can help prevent Seethers from being neutered by back-arc jams.
  • Goreshade1 can get good mileage out of Seethers in his battlegroup. Shadowmancer not only helps protect them on the approach, it also buffs their countercharge with Dark Shroud. Judicious use of Soul Gate can also help mitigate the risk of overextending while setting you up to threaten countercharges from unexpected vectors.
  • Mortenebra1's Overrun spell can help the Seether advance after a successful charge in order to maximize his Berserk attacks. Jumpstart may also help you to counter the Seether neutralizing tactics in Drawbacks & Downsides.
  • Skarre2 provides Admonition, which has decent synergy with the Seether's countercharge and can make it a tricky piece for your opponent to plan their activations around, especially on her feat turn.

Drawbacks & Downsides

  • DEF 12 for no good reason.
  • DEF 12, ARM 17, and 28 hit boxes combined with it being melee only with no defensive tech make it inherently possibly the easiest to kill heavy in the game.
  • You pay for all the offensive tech on this glass canon and it doesn't fit together well:
    • Berserk clashes with having to charge because having to move in straight lines means you can't always get into the right positions
    • MAT 8 is not that useful on a melee heavy - most enemy melee heavies are Def 12 or less, and against a colossal you'll be hitting almost all the time anyway.
    • Berserk isn't that useful without mobility - it only really lets you kill things you end up in 1" of and if it's just infantry you can do that with little trouble. Probably its best use is to "upgrade" your head attack so if you kill something small with it you get another claw attack against a big target.
  • It can't walk around a corner and punch someone, it must run or charge instead.
  • Hard Head is a bit pointless since Uncontrollable Rage means the Seether can only declare a Slam if it is engaging a model already, and the chances of you doing that and being able to move 3" are pretty low (unless you want to eat a free strike).
    • The situation is slightly better with Headbutt.

Uncontrollable Rage (UR) - How to Neuter the Seether

  • If your Seether is engaged (an enemy has it in their melee range) but the Seether is not engaging (there is no one in the Seether's melee range) then UR triggers and it must run or charge.
  • An enemy model that runs into a Seether's back arc effectively neuters it.
    UR triggers but he can't charge the model engaging him (because he has no LOS to it). Which leaves you 2 options:
    1. Run/charge something else that's in front of you, and eat a free strike (and if your enemy was smart, they would have used something nasty to threaten the free strike.)
    2. or use your run move to spin in place and waste your activation.

Tricks & Tips

  • If you're going up against a hard target, use your Tusks vs a nearby weak infantry. That'll trigger Berserk giving you a stronger attack vs your main target.
    • You can even kill one or your own troops to trigger Berserk, which can make positioning the Seether easier.
  • If you start your activation engaging, then you're free to walk normally, make normal attacks, Head-butt, Slam, Throw, or Trample through the enemy.
  • Some models cannot be engaged (knocked down targets, scenario objectives, etc) and so Uncontrollable Rage will still trigger even if they're in your melee range.
  • Use the Seether on the flanks. With free runs/charges and 3 initials it can work pretty well vs light/medium targets without focus, so it's no biggie if it accidentally flanks too far and ends up out of your control range.
  • If you somehow get a Trample (despite Uncontrollable Rage) then try to end your trample movement in melee range of something. That way, the models you kill with the Trample will trigger a Berserk attack. But remember that trampling only triggers one instance of berserk no matter how many models you destroy.
  • Kill an infantry model too near your main target with the headbutt and you can get a claw in on that main target.
  • Six attacks including a charge attack in one turn is not just possible but easy. These are only P+S 17 - but the Seether can make exceptional uses of debuffs.

Other

Classic sculpt

Trivia

Other Cryx models

Cryx Logo.jpg       Cryx Index       (Edit)            
Battlegroup & Similar
Warcasters

Agathia - Aiakos2 - Asphyxious1 - Asphyxious2 - Asphyxious3 - Coven - Deneghra1 - Deneghra2 - Deneghra3 - Goreshade1 - Goreshade2 - Goreshade3 - Mortenebra1 - Mortenebra2 - Rahera - Scaverous - Skarre1 - Skarre2 - Skarre3 - Sturgis2 - Terminus - Venethrax

Warcaster attachments

The Withershadow Combine - Satyxis Blood Priestess - Skarlock Thrall - Doctor Stygius (Partisan) - Madelyn Corbeau (Mercenary)

Other Warjack Controllers

Jack Marshals: Iron Lich Overseer       "Junior Warcasters": Aiakos1 - Asphyxious4 - Deneghra0

Light

Cankerworm - Deathripper - Defiler - Helldiver - Nightwretch - Ripjaw - Scavenger - Shrike - Stalker

Heavy

Barathrum - Corruptor - Deathjack - Desecrator - Erebus - Harrower - Kharybdis - Inflictor - Leviathan - Malice - Nightmare - Reaper - Seether - Slayer

Colossal Kraken - Sepulcher
Units, Solos, Battle Engines, & Structures
Units

Asphyxious4 - Bane Knights - Bane Riders - Bane Warriors - Bile Thralls - BO Boarding Party - BO Ironmongers - BO Smog Belchers - Bloodgorgers - Marauders - Carrion Thralls - Cephalyx Drudges - Cephalyx Overlords - Mechanithralls - Necrosurgeon - Revenant Cannon - Revenant Crew - Satyxis Gunslingers - Satyxis Blood Witches - Satyxis Raiders - Scharde Dirge Seers - Scharde Pirates - Soulhunters - The Devil's Shadow Mutineers - The Withershadow Combine

Solos

Aiakos1 - Agrimony - Axiara - Bane Lord Tartarus - Bloat Thrall - BTO Mobius - Captain Rengrave - Darragh Wrathe - Doctor Stygius - Deneghra0 - Gerlak - Hellslinger - Iron Lich Overseer - Machine Wraith - Master Gurglepox - Misery Cage - Necrotech - Pistol Wraith - Satyxis Blood Priestess - Satyxis Raider Captain - Scrap Thrall - Skarlock Thrall - Severa Blacktide - Soul Trapper - Warwitch Siren

Battle Engines & Structures Wraith Engine
Theme Forces
Black Industries - Dark Host - The Ghost Fleet - Scourge of the Broken Coast
Mercenaries
Refer to Who Works for Whom and/or Category: Cryx Mercenary
This index was last updated: 2020.03

Rules Clarifications

RC symbol.png

Rules Clarification : Open Fist  (aka, Power Attack Throw)     (Edit)

  • Throw - General ( Edit )
    • See also the Throw article for a recap of the core Throw rules.
    • Because you move the target model between the attack roll and the damage roll, you can get different buffs applied to the two rolls. For instance, if you throw the target in or out of a Flanking model's melee range.
  • Throw - Power Attack
    • When you make a Throw Power Attack, no other abilities of the Fist weapon (such as Chain Strike) are applied unless they specifically mention Throws.
    • If you do a Power Attack Throw and you choose to throw the target directly away, no deviation is rolled to determine the final position of the model. (Locked thread)
    • A model that cannot be targeted by melee attacks (such as Una2's feat) cannot have models thrown at them, either. (Infernal Ruling)
    • Unresolved: Since throwing Model [A] at Model [B] involves making a melee attack roll vs Model [B] which is out of your melee range, it technically breaks a whole bunch of core rules. (Infernal Checking)
    • Even though you make a "melee attack roll" vs Model [B] you don't actually make a melee attack vs it. Also, the damage it suffers is from Collateral damage, not from the original attack. So you can't trigger stuff like Snacking from damage you did to Model B.
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Rules Clarification : Hard Head      (Edit)

  • You can add the POW even if the weapon system is crippled.
  • Hard Head doesn't get applied to collateral damage, because that is a separate type of roll. Refer page 45 of the mini rulebook.
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Rules Clarification : Warjack      (Edit)

  • The Cortex/Induction core rule means a warjack cannot have more than 3 focus at any time (maybe 4 if they're really special).
    • Many abilities give out focus and don't state an upper limit (such as Convection and Empower). Despite not stating an upper limit, they are always "hard-limited" by the core rule.
    • A warjack can have more than 3 focus during a turn, though. For instance, a knocked down warjack can Power Up and be Allocated 2 focus, then spend 1 to shake knockdown, then another model could Empower it back up to 3.
  • Warjacks cannot spend focus outside of their activation. For instance, they can't boost free strikes or trigger Powerful Attack on Broadsides. (Infernal Ruling)

Inert warjacks

  • Abilities that say they cannot be used if the model is stationary (such as Shield Guard) cannot be used while a warjack is inert, either. Refer "Warcaster Destruction", page 59 of the core rulebook.

Rules Clarification : Construct - None yet. (Edit)

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Rules Clarification:  : Countercharge      (Edit)
(Click Expand to read)

    Triggering Countercharge    
  • You can trigger Countercharge if you're engaging, but not engaged.
  • Some abilities let you "ignore intervening models when declaring a charge" (such as Flight). Unfortunately, you still need LOS to trigger Countercharge, and it's only after CC is triggered that you actually get to declare a charge. In other words, Flight and Countercharge don't work together for LOS purposes.
  • What does trigger Countercharge
    • Countercharge triggers off any advance, not just in-activation stuff.
    • You can trigger Countercharge during your own turn, if your opponent has an ability to move during your turn (such as Admonition).
    • Standing still but changing facing is an advance.
  • What doesn't trigger Countercharge
    • Aiming, or forfeiting your movement, is not advancing.
    • If a model doesn't move, doesn't change facing, doesn't aim ... does nothing but skips straight ahead to its Combat Action, this is not an advance. (Infernal Ruling)
    • Being placed (such as Teleport) is not an advance.
    • Involuntary movement (being slammed, thrown, or pushed) is not an advance.
  • When a unit is moving, countercharge is triggered on a model-by-model basis. So you can countercharge after any model in the unit has finished its move within range, but you can only countercharge that model who just finished its movement. You can't "save it" until the entire unit finishes moving and then say "I'm going to Countercharge the first guy you moved."

    What can your opponent do?    

  • Once you trigger countercharge, your opponent cannot use a "Any Time" ability until the countercharge is fully resolved. Even though it's their turn.
  • They can trigger their own abilities from your movement (such as Admonition) and/or your attack (such as Shock Field).

    Attacks, Boosting, & Other Triggers    

  • You only get one attack when making a countercharge, regardless of how many initials you normally have.
  • The charge attack damage is only boosted if the Countercharger moved 3" or more, as with a regular charge.
  • Countercharge occurs outside of activation so you can't spend fury/focus to boost a countercharge attack, nor buy additional attacks afterwards, not trigger stuff that only happens during your Combat Action (like Berserk).
    • Exception: It is possible to trigger Countercharge during your own activation (for instance your opponent triggers Admonition to try and move away). In that case, you can do all the stuff mentioned above. (Locked Thread)

    After the Countercharge    

  • You cannot use any abilities that trigger on "during activation" or "during combat action" (such as Sprint) after a Countercharge, as Counter Charge is not an activation. (Locked thread)

    Other interactions    

  • Countercharge within your own activation ( Edit )
    • You can trigger Countercharge during your own activation, but only if an enemy model somehow triggers their own move. For instance, you move towards a model with Admonition and they trigger that to try to move away. (You do a normal move, they trigger admonition and move, you trigger countercharge from their admonition-move.)
    • In this scenario you may boost Countercharge attacks and trigger only-during-activation effects (such as Critical Shred & Sustained Attack) exactly as if you were in your activation (because you are).
    • Also, you can potentially get two charge attacks (one for your normal charge, one for the counter charge). (Infernal Ruling)
      This ruling still applies even after the 2018.07 update (Infernal Re-ruling)
  • Countercharge plus Admonition
    • If a model has both CC and Admonition, it can trigger both at the same time. A model moves nearby, it admonitions away, then countercharges back in.
  • Countercharge vs Slipstream ( Edit )
    • Both these abilities trigger at the same time (end of movement). The active player then resolved his first.
    • This can let the Slipstream model place something to block the Countercharge model.
  • Assault vs Countercharge ( Edit )
  • Countercharge & Cavalry ( Edit )
    • A model with Countercharge and Cavalry can make Impact Attacks during the countercharge. (Refer "Charges Outside of Activation" in the rulebook).
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Rules Clarification : Berserk      (Edit)

  • Berserk attacks will generate even more Berserk attacks. You keep going until you miss, something survives, or you run out of targets.
  • Berserk grants an additional attack which by definition can only occur during your Combat Action. Therefore Berserk doesn't work on free strikes, impact attacks, etc.
  • "Immediately" means you can't save it until later in your activation. Berserk must be resolved at step 14 of the attack sequence (refer Apdx A).
  • You cannot use "Any Time" abilities while resolving the original attack, the Berserk attack, or between the attacks. Refer Apdx A.
  • Berserk doesn't trigger during a frenzy. (Infernal Ruling)
  • Berserk will not trigger if the target uses an ability to move the damage to another model (such as a warlock transfer).
    • But it will trigger if they use an ability to move the attack to a different model (such as Grim Salvation).
  • Berserk has a weird niche interaction with Agathon's abilities, which you can read here.
  • Attack-Generating Abilities (Edit)
    • From the core rulebook: When a model is granted more attacks as a result of an attack it made, it gains only one. If two or more special rules would grant the model another attack as a result of making an attack, its controlling player chooses which special rule to apply.
    • If you trigger two attack-generating abilities (such as Black Spot and Kill Shot) you choose to resolve one and "lose" the other (unless you trigger it again later).
    • If you trigger two attack-generating abilities, and one of them is compulsory (such as Black Spot and Berserk), you must choose to resolve the compulsory one. (Infernal Ruling)
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Rules Clarification : Uncontrollable Rage      (Edit)

  • If you declare a run, then don't move the Seether and don't change facing, then you fulfil the requirements of Uncontrollable Rage but don't count as advancing; allowing you to avoid triggering enemy abilities like Countercharge. (Infernal Ruling)
  • If your movement system is crippled, you can't run or charge so Uncontrollable Rage doesn't apply. You can only use your Normal Movement to make a "full advance" (aka "walk").