|99% of this website is about Mark 3 (mk3), which is the previous edition of the game (2016 to 2022). The reasons for this are explained here.|
1% of the website is about Mark 4 (mk4), but only in regards to which mk3 models are useable in mk4 Prime and which are mk4 Unlimited. See Legacy Armies for more detail.
| Seether |
This model is available in one Prime Army, Dark Host. It can also be used in the Unlimited game mode. You can view the other Mk3 models that made it into a Legacy Army at this page.
Note that the rest of this page is about the model's Mark III rules.
The murderously aggressive Seethers were created for slaughter, a task they achieve with singular efficiency. These nigh-uncontrollable constructs are more than mere killing machines, though; they are an accomplishment of malign intent. Using the horrific soul drives grafted to their cortexes, these abominations extract energy from the rage of souls bound for endless torment in order to fuel their own dark predations.
Warjack - All warjacks share the same set of special rules. Most notably being big and stompy. Click here for a newbie-friendly recap, or click here for the full rules.
- Countercharge - When an enemy model advances and ends its movement within 6" of this model and in its LOS, this model can immediately charge it. This model can use Countercharge only once per round and not while engaged.
- Berserk - When this model destroys one or more models with a melee attack during its Combat Action, immediately after the attack is resolved it must make one additional melee attack against another model in its melee range.
- Uncontrollable Rage - This model must run or charge during its activation if it can, unless it is engaging an enemy model. It does this without spending focus.
|1||7||17||1 each side|
- Black Industries. Seether gains Carapace in this theme.
- Dark Host
- Scourge of the Broken Coast. Seether gains Gang Fighter in this theme.
- The Ghost Fleet
- Other Factions
- Infernal players can use this model in the Hearts of Darkness theme, but only if Mortenebra is leading the army. It gains Accumulator [Soulless] in this theme.
- Mercenary and Convergence players can use it by either:
- putting it under the control of Asphyxious4 in various themes,
- putting it under the control of Mortenebra in Strange Bedfellows.
Thoughts on the Seether
The Seether in a nutshell
In theory, the Seether is an amazing glass-cannon wrecking ball, sporting excellent offensive capabilities with MAT 8(!), P+S 17 on the claws, Berserk, Countercharge, and free runs/charges - all at a reasonable price. Add in some debuffs and it will tear apart infantry lines and heavies alike.
In reality, the stipulations of Uncontrollable Rage are heavily exploitable by any half-decent opponent (see the Downsides section for the methods) and the Seether spends all game running, even when the opponent is only an inch away.
Furthermore its defensive statline of 12/17/28 makes it easy to hit and easy to shred, in fact it's pretty much the worst statline a heavy could have in this game.
If you want to use the Seether, you need to have a caster that gives it out-of-activation move (such as Telekinesis or Overrun) so it can get LOS and declare a charge when it does activate. In other words you've got to jump through hoops just to get it to "functional".
- Note: the arguments against Seethers come from a competitive mindset where opponents are bringing S-tier lists and are familiar with how to leverage the Seether's weaknesses.
Combos & Synergies
- The Black Industries theme force gives you Carapace so that it won't get shot up so easily before reaching the enemy.
- The Iron Lich Overseer 'Jack Marshal (aka the Overseether). An expensive combo at 18 points, but relatively popular (in the right army).
- The ILO gives the Seether Dark Shroud.
- The Seether still runs/charges for free even when marshalled, so the ILO can use a different 'Jack Marshal ability.
- Crush (+1 attacks, +2 damage) means the talons can deliver 3 hits, and Dark Shroud means they're at a colossal-level damage output. (Or even 4 hits if you can use the Tusks to trigger Berserk)
- Hurry (run/charge/power attack, and +2 to-hit on charges/slams) is only useful if either you're already in melee (and Uncontrollable Rage didn't trigger) and want to Trample or Throw; or if you want the +2 to hit on a charge attack.
- Strike True (+2 to all to-hit rolls) pushes your effective MAT 10.
- Just be sure to screen your ILO from incoming attacks.
- Scaverous - The main way to neuter the Seether is for your enemy to leave no model for it to charge within its front arc and/or turn it around with Domantion/Befuddle/TK tricks. Old Scavvy can TK enemies into range again or use it to turn the Seether around (And extend it's threat range by 3").
- Agathia1's feat works well on Seethers, creating order of activation issues for an opponent facing down potential countercharges. Also the out-of-activation possibilities afforded by Hellwrought can help prevent Seethers from being neutered by back-arc jams.
- Goreshade1 can get good mileage out of Seethers in his battlegroup. Shadowmancer not only helps protect them on the approach, it also buffs their countercharge with Dark Shroud. Judicious use of Soul Gate can also help mitigate the risk of overextending while setting you up to threaten countercharges from unexpected vectors.
- Mortenebra1's Overrun spell can help the Seether advance after a successful charge in order to maximize his Berserk attacks. Jumpstart may also help you to counter the Seether neutralizing tactics in Drawbacks & Downsides.
- Skarre2 provides Admonition, which has decent synergy with the Seether's countercharge and can make it a tricky piece for your opponent to plan their activations around, especially on her feat turn.
Drawbacks & Downsides
- DEF 12, ARM 17, and 28 hit boxes combined with it being melee-only and no defensive tech all adds up to it being easy to kill - possibly the easiest to kill heavy in the game.
- It can't walk around a corner and punch someone, it must run or charge instead.
- You pay for all the offensive tech on this glass cannon and it doesn't fit together well:
- Berserk clashes with having to charge because you can't always get into the best place to go Berserk.
- Berserk isn't that useful on models that don't have 2" reach nor overtake. In the Seether's case, it only really lets you kill things you end up within 1" of. If that's just infantry, you could probably do that with just your initial attacks.
- Hard Head is a bit pointless since Uncontrollable Rage means it is almost impossible to do a Power Attack.
- Counter Charge can be actively debilitating. If you don't kill your CC target for whatever reason, the Seether will most likely be engaged (unless you positioned really, really well) and cannot charge anymore unless it takes a free strike.
Uncontrollable Rage - How to Neuter a Seether
- There are many ways to shut down charges, and if a Seether can't charge it must run ... even if an enemy is within normal walking range.
- Anything which blocks the Seether's LOS (such as dropping a cloud in front of the Seether).
- Anything which changes the Seether's LOS (such as Telekinesis).
- Anything which prevents a model declaring a charge (such as Axis's feat or the Polarity Shield spell).
- Even if you can't mess with LOS or charges, you can still neuter the Seether.
- Simply run a model into the Seether's back arc (that can do decent damage to an ARM 17 model on a free strike). While you're in the back arc, the Seether is not engaging you, so Uncontrollable Rage triggers and the Seether must run/charge. The Seether can't see the model in its back arc so it has two options:
- Charge something that's in front of the Seether, and eat a free strike.
- Use a Run to turn around to face the model in its back arc, and do nothing else that activation.
Tricks & Tips
- If you're going up against a hard target, use your Tusks vs a nearby weak infantry. That'll trigger Berserk giving you a stronger attack vs your main target.
- You can even kill one or your own troops to trigger Berserk, which can make positioning the Seether easier.
- If you start your activation engaging, then you're free to walk normally, make normal attacks, Head-butt, Slam, Throw, or Trample through the enemy.
- Some models cannot be engaged (knocked down targets, scenario objectives, etc) and so Uncontrollable Rage will still trigger even if they're in your melee range.
- Use the Seether on the flanks. With free runs/charges and 3 initials it can work pretty well vs light/medium targets without focus, so it's no biggie if it accidentally flanks too far and ends up out of your control range.
- If you somehow get a Trample (despite Uncontrollable Rage) then try to end your trample movement in melee range of something. That way, the models you kill with the Trample will trigger a Berserk attack. But remember that trampling only triggers one instance of berserk no matter how many models you destroy.
- Kill an infantry model too near your main target with the headbutt and you can get a claw in on that main target.
- Six attacks including a charge attack in one turn is not just possible but easy. These are only P+S 17 - but the Seether can make exceptional uses of debuffs.
- Originally released in Warmachine: Escalation (2004)
- 2004 Sculptor: John Winter
- Resculpted in 2016
Other Cryx models
Rules Clarification : Open Fist (aka, Power Attack Throw) (Edit)
Rules Clarification : Hard Head (Edit)
Rules Clarification : Warjack (Edit)
Rules Clarification : Construct - None yet. (Edit)
Rules Clarification: : Countercharge (Edit)
| Timing |
Attacks, Boosting, & Other Triggers
After the Countercharge
Rules Clarification : Berserk (Edit)
Rules Clarification : Uncontrollable Rage (Edit)