Difference between revisions of "Bronzeback Titan"

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(Drawbacks & Downsides)
(Drawbacks & Downsides)
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===Drawbacks & Downsides===
 
===Drawbacks & Downsides===
 
* It's a special order model.
 
* It's a special order model.
* Overkill is also known as wasted damage. Enraged Bronzebacks are frequently overkill against anything that isn't on a huge base.  
+
* Overkill is also known as wasted damage. Enraged Bronzebacks are frequently overkill against anything that isn't on a huge base.
 
* The chain attack doesn't work properly against Colossals/Gargantuans as they can't be picked up, and you can't headbutt a model with a larger base than your own.
 
* The chain attack doesn't work properly against Colossals/Gargantuans as they can't be picked up, and you can't headbutt a model with a larger base than your own.
* Counter-charge is really good in beginner games but at high levels, it's possible to jam.
+
* Counter-charge is good but should not be overvalued. As a counter charger, the Bronzeback isn't very scary, and he can be engaged to remove that entirely. Don't lose too much time trying to optimize Counter Charge.
* If you just want to one round a colossal then in [[Disciples of Agony]] the [[War Hog]] is three points cheaper, faster, easier to deliver thanks to Bulldoze hits harder, and is probably harder to kill thanks to DEF 12. Of course the Bronzeback does fury management on titans and agonizers, is MAT 7, and Smash and Grab makes it really effective against heavies.
 
  
 
===Tricks & Tips===
 
===Tricks & Tips===

Revision as of 16:52, 17 November 2019

Skorne Logo.jpg Bronzeback Titan

Skorne Titan Heavy Warbeast

Fluff

Basic Info

Template:SOM

Bronzeback Titan
Missing Info
Bronzeback Titan.jpg
COST {{{cacost}}}
UNIT SIZE {{{casize}}}
FA {{{cafa}}}
Warcaster 0
BASE Large
SPD 4
STR 13
MAT 7
RAT N/A
M.A. N/A
DEF 10
ARM 19
CMD 7
ESSENCE {{{essence}}}
FOCUS N/A
FURY 5
THRS 7
HP 34
F. Field N/A
WJP {{{wjp}}}
WBP {{{wbp}}}
IHP {{{ihp}}}
FA U
UNIT SIZE N/A
COST 17
N/A
N/A
N/A
Warcaster 1
COST N/A
N/A
Understanding
the Statblock

Abilities

  • Warbeast - All warbeasts share a huge stack of special rules. The short version is they're big, furious, and beat stuff up pretty good. Click here for a newbie-friendly recap, or click here for the full rules.
  • Countercharge - When an enemy model advances and ends its movement within 6" of this model and in its LOS, this model can immediately charge it. This model can use Countercharge only once per round and not while engaged.
  • Hyper-Aggressive - When this model suffers damage from an enemy attack at any time except while it is advancing, after the attack is resolved it can immediately make a full advance directly toward the attacking model.
  • Leadership [ Titan ] - Friendly {{{2}}} models in this model's command range gain {{{3}}}.

Weapons

  • Tusks - 1" reach, P+S 16 melee attack
    • Hard Head - This model can add this weapon's POW to its head-butt and slam power attack damage rolls.
  • War Gauntlet (x2) - 1" reach, P+S 17 melee attacks
    • Open Fist symbol.jpg Open Fist
    • Beat Back - Immediately after a basic attack with this weapon is resolved during this model's Combat Action, the enemy model hit can be pushed 1" directly away from the attacking model. After the enemy model is pushed, the attacking model can advance up to 1" directly toward it.
    • Chain Attack: Grab & Smash - If this model hits the same model with both its initial attacks with this weapon, after resolving the attacks it can immediately make a head-butt or throw power attack against that target.

Animus

COST RNG AOE POW DUR OFF
Puissance

1 SELF - - Round No
The spellcaster gains Unyielding. Puissance lasts for one round.
Unyielding - A model with Unyielding gains +2 ARM against melee damage rolls.

Theme Forces

Recent Changes

2018.12 Exalted Dynamic Update

  • +1 HP, -1 points cost
  • Gained Hyper-Aggressive and Beat Back
  • Puissance now gives the caster Unyielding (it used to give a target warbeast Beat Back).


Thoughts on the Bronzeback Titan

Bronzeback Titan in a nutshell

The Bronzeback Titan does two things and does them extremely well. Smashes stuff - and leads titan herds. In Mk2, it got a reputation for (with the help of Paingiver Beast Handlers) being able to one-round Colossals and after the Great Skorne Errata it is back to its former strength although was too expensive for what it did. Recent updates have given it access to Unyielding and made it cheaper and more threatening, making it good enough to occasionally be seen in high level tournament winning lists although far from ubiquitous. It's a nicely balanced model - if your army wants what it does it's worth the points, but although it might be the heaviest heavy hammer in the box a lighter one will do the job more cheaply much of the time. Still, there's no kill like overkill.

Combos & Synergies

Fundamentally, the Bronzeback is a sledgehammer. He wants anything that will help him do that better

Drawbacks & Downsides

  • It's a special order model.
  • Overkill is also known as wasted damage. Enraged Bronzebacks are frequently overkill against anything that isn't on a huge base.
  • The chain attack doesn't work properly against Colossals/Gargantuans as they can't be picked up, and you can't headbutt a model with a larger base than your own.
  • Counter-charge is good but should not be overvalued. As a counter charger, the Bronzeback isn't very scary, and he can be engaged to remove that entirely. Don't lose too much time trying to optimize Counter Charge.

Tricks & Tips

  • Decide which way you want to Grab and Smash - two handed throws using the ruined target as a projectile, or headbutt to finish it off.
  • Using Beat Back to push into a second target is hard work on positioning but worthwhile if it lets you wreck two heavies in a round.
  • Bronzebacks are legendary for their killing power. Opponents will go to great lengths to avoid them or kill them early. Use this threat to upset your opponent's plans.
  • His threshold is really low. If you max him out, make sure friendly forces are far away.
  • There is little point not casting Puissance when you aren't expecting to fight that turn. Preferably you want the Fury to spare when you are.
  • Unyielding still works against Blessed weapons.

Other

Trivia

  • The Bronzeback is probably inspired by a Silverback gorilla.
  • Released in Hordes: Evolution (2007)

Other Skorne models

Skorne Logo.jpg       Skorne Index       (Edit)
Battlegroup & Similar
Warlocks Hexeris1 - Hexeris2 - Jalaam1 - Makeda1 - Makeda2 - Makeda3 - Mordikaar1 - Morghoul1 - Morghoul2 - Morghoul3 - Naaresh1 - Rasheth1 - Xekaar1 - Xerxis1 - Xerxis2 - Zaal1 - Zaal2 - Zaadesh2
Lessers & Attachments Aptimus Marketh (Warlock attachment) - Zaadesh1 (Lesser Warlock) - Makeda0 (Lesser Warlock)
Lesser

Agonizer - Aradus Scarab - Reptile Hounds - The Terrorizer

Light Basilisk Drake - Basilisk Krea - Cyclops Brute - Cyclops Raider - Cyclops Savage - Cyclops Shaman - Razor Worm
Heavy

Aradus Sentinel - Aradus Soldier - Archidon - Chiron - Bronzeback Titan - Despoiler - Molik Karn - Rhinodon - Tiberion - Titan Cannoneer - Titan Gladiator - Titan Sentry

Gargantuans Desert Hydra - Mammoth
Units, Solos, & Battle Engines
Units

Cataphract Arcuarii - Cataphract Cetrati - Cataphract Incindiarii - Immortals - Legends of Halaak - Nihilators - Paingiver Beast Handlers - Paingiver Bloodrunners - Praetorian Ferox - Praetorian Karax - Praetorian Keltarii - Praetorian Swordsmen - Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer - Venator Catapult Crew - Venator Flayer Cannon Crew - Venator Reivers - Venator Slingers

Solos

Abidan the Keeper - Ancestral Guardian - Aptimus Marketh - Extoller Novitiate - Extoller Soulward - Hakaar the Destroyer - Immortal Vessel - Makeda0 - Mortitheurge Willbreaker - Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor - Paingiver Task Master - Tyrant Rhadeim - Venator Dakar - Void Spirit - Zaadesh1

Battle Engines Siege Animantarax - Supreme Guardian
Theme Forces
Disciples of Agony - Masters of War - The Exalted - Winds of Death
Minions
Refer to Who Works for Whom and/or Category: Skorne Minion
This index was last updated: 2021.11

Rules Clarifications

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Rules Clarification : Bronzeback's Leadership ability

  • If a Titan ends its activation in the CMD of multiple Bronzebacks, you can remove 1 fury per Bronzeback. (Infernal Ruling)


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Rules Clarification : Hard Head      (Edit)

  • You can add the POW even if the weapon system is crippled.
  • Hard Head doesn't get applied to collateral damage, because that is a separate type of roll. Refer page 45 of the mini rulebook.
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Rules Clarification : Open Fist  (aka, Power Attack Throw)     (Edit)

  • Throw ( Edit )
    • See also the Throw article for a recap of the core Throw rules.
    • If a model is somehow thrown at itself (which can happen with Durst1's feat) it would not move, it would be knocked down, and it would take a standard power attack damage roll but it would not take an additional die for colliding with itself. (Infernal Ruling)
    • Because you move the target model between the attack roll and the damage roll, you can get different buffs applied to the two rolls. For instance, if you throw the target in or out of a Flanking model's melee range.
  • Incorporeal vs Slammed/Thrown models ( Edit )
    • Incorporeal models cannot be moved by someone trying to slam them.
    • Slammed models can move through Incorporeal models.
      • If they have enough movement to get past them, no dramas.
      • If they land on them, you move the Incorporeal model out of the way as per the Rule of Least Disturbance.
      • If the Incorporeal model cannot be moved (i.e. it's a flag) then you move the slammed model out of the way, also by the rule of Least Disturbance.
      • For the purposes of Collateral Damage, only the model(s) you contacted before you applied the rule of Least Disturbance count as contacted.
    • The same logic applies to Throws.
  • Collateral Damage
    • Collateral damage cannot be boosted and is not considered damage from an attack or model. Refer page 33 of the 2021.08 version of the rules pdf. As a result:
      • It doesn't trigger stuff that relies on being hit by an enemy (such as Shock Field) or damaged by an enemy (such as Vengeance).
      • It doesn't get bonus damage from stuff that adds to a model's damage roll (such as Signs & Portents or Prey).
      • It doesn't matter if the attacker has crippled weapon systems or aspects.
  • Throw - Power Attack
    • When you make a Throw Power Attack, no other abilities of the Fist weapon (such as Chain Strike) are applied unless they specifically mention Throws. (Locked Thread)
    • If you do a Power Attack Throw and you choose to throw the target directly away, no deviation is rolled to determine the final position of the model. (Locked thread)
    • A model that cannot be targeted by melee attacks (such as Una2's feat) cannot have models thrown at them, either. (Infernal Ruling)
    • Since throwing Model [A] at Model [B] involves making a melee attack roll vs Model [B] which is out of your melee range, it technically breaks a whole bunch of core rules. (Infernal Checking)
    • Even though you make a "melee attack roll" vs Model [B] you don't actually make a melee attack vs it. Also, the damage it suffers is from Collateral damage, not from the original attack. So you can't trigger stuff like Snacking from damage you did to Model B.
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Rules Clarification : Chain Attack Grab & Smash      (Edit)

  • Grab & Smash allows you to make a Power Attack during the same activation that you charged. (Locked thread)
  • You may want to refresh yourself on the Rules Clarifications on Throws and Head-Butts.
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Rules Clarification : Chain Attack      (Edit)

  • Some Chain Attacks generate a Power Attack (such as Chain Attack: Throw. These Chains can be used after charging, even though Power Attacks normally can't be used after a charge. (Infernal Ruling)
  • Buying extra attacks with fury or focus cannot trigger a Chain Attack - only initial attacks can trigger it.
  • If you have 3 weapons but only 2 of them are associated with the Chain Attack, then you can make that 3rd initial attack at any point without it preventing the Chain Attack from triggering.
    Also, interrupting your initials to resolve the Chain Attack will not prevent you taking the 3rd initial.
    For example, the Cryx Nightmare has two Claws with a Chain Attack, plus some Tusks. When he makes his initial attacks he can go:
    • [Claw] - [Tusks] - [Claw] - [Chain Attack] ... even though the two Claw attacks weren't sequential.
    • [Claw] - [Claw] - [Chain Attack] - [Tusks] ... even though he did the Chain Attack before getting to his initial Tusk.
    • [Tusks] - [Claw] - [Claw] - [Chain Attack]
    • He cannot go ... [Claw] - [Claw] - [Tusks] - [Chain Attack] ... because you must resolve the Chain Attack as soon as it's triggered, or not at all.


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Rules Clarification:  : Warbeast      (Edit)
(Click Expand to read)

See also the Warbeast page for a recap of the core warbeast rules.
  • Forcing
    • If an ability doesn't specify how much it costs to force, it costs 1. (Infernal Ruling)
  • Animi
    • A single Animus can be on several models at the same time. (Infernal Ruling)
    • Unlike in Mk2, in Mk3 if a model has an animus on it from any source and then another animus is cast on that model, it will lose the first instance of an animus and will be replaced by the second. It does not matter if either the first animus or the second animus is from a warlock or warbeast. (Infernal Ruling)
    • An animi cast by a warlock is an animi and a spell. (Infernal Ruling)
  • Transferring Damage
    • If both the warlock and the warbeast are damaged by the same attack (such as an AOE), then you need to apply the 'normal' damage to the warbeast before the transferred damage. This distinction can be important when you're working out who/what actually destroyed the beast. (Infernal Ruling)
  • Frenzy (Edit)
    • You cannot trigger optional abilities (such as Cleave or Sprint). (Infernal Ruling)
    • You must trigger compulsory abilities (such as Consume) ... except for compulsory abilities that also generate an extra attack (such as Berserk). In that case, you don't get the Berserk attack. (Infernal Ruling)
    • A warbeast may not make an Assault shot as part of a Frenzy activation.
    • If the closest target to a warbeast resolving a Frenzy cannot be charged, then the warbeast will forfeit movement and action (as per the rules of having to charge and not being able to). (Infernal Ruling)
    • If a frenzying warbeast can't reach its charge target (because the charge lane is blocked by terrain, etc) then it will make a failed charge and end its activation. (Locked thread)
    • If a frenzying warbeast has two melee weapons with the same POW, it can choose which one to use. (Infernal Ruling)
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Rules Clarification:  : Countercharge      (Edit)
(Click Expand to read)

    Timing    
  • If the moving model has Assault, the Countercharge is resolved before the Assault attack. (Infernal Ruling).
  • If the moving model has a rule that resolves "at the end of Normal Movement" (such as Slipstream), the Countercharge is resolved before the other rule. (Infernal Ruling)
  • The moving model cannot use an "Any Time" after finishing their advance but before your Countercharge. They can use it only after the Countercharge is resolved.
  • If the non-countercharging player has a similar "ends an advance" trigger (such as Admonition) then they can trigger and resolve that from your countercharge movement.
    • Example: Model [A] charges, and triggers Countercharge on [B]. Model [B] countercharges, and triggers Admonition on [C].
      Resolve Admonition on [C]. Then finish resolving Countercharge on [B]. Then finish model [A]'s activation.

    Triggering Countercharge    

  • You can trigger Countercharge if you're engaging, but not engaged.
  • You can trigger Countercharge during your own turn, if your opponent has an ability to move during your turn (such as Admonition).
  • Some abilities let you "ignore intervening models when declaring a charge" (such as Flight). Unfortunately, you still need LOS to trigger Countercharge, and it's only after CC is triggered that you actually get to declare a charge. In other words, Flight and Countercharge don't work together for LOS purposes.
  • What does trigger Countercharge
    • Countercharge triggers off any advance, not just in-activation stuff.
    • Standing still but changing facing is an advance.
  • What doesn't trigger Countercharge
    • Aiming, or forfeiting your movement, is not advancing.
    • If a model doesn't move, doesn't change facing, doesn't aim ... does nothing but skips straight ahead to its Combat Action, this is not an advance. (Infernal Ruling)
    • Being placed (such as Teleport) is not an advance.
    • Involuntary movement (being slammed, thrown, or pushed) is not an advance.
  • When a unit is moving, countercharge is triggered on a model-by-model basis. So you can countercharge after any model in the unit has finished its move within range, but you can only countercharge that model who just finished its movement. You can't "save it" until the entire unit finishes moving and then say "I'm going to Countercharge the first guy you moved."

    Attacks, Boosting, & Other Triggers    

  • You only get one attack when making a countercharge, regardless of how many initials you normally have.
  • The charge attack damage is only boosted if the Countercharger moved 3" or more, as with a regular charge.
  • Countercharge occurs outside of activation so you can't spend fury/focus to boost a countercharge attack, nor buy additional attacks afterwards, not trigger stuff that only happens during your Combat Action (like Berserk).
  • Even if you trigger Countercharge during your own activation, for the duration of you resolving the CC it "no longer counts" as being in your activation. (Infernal Ruling)

    After the Countercharge    

  • The countercharging model cannot use any abilities that trigger on "during activation" or "during combat action" (such as Sprint), as Counter Charge is not an activation. (Locked thread)

    Other interactions    

  • Countercharge during your own activation (Countercharge vs Admonition etc) ( Edit )
    • You can trigger Countercharge during your own activation, but only if an enemy model moves during your activation. For instance, you move towards a model who has Admonition and they trigger that to try to move away. (You do a normal move, they trigger admonition and move, you trigger countercharge from their admonition-move.)
    • However countercharge always counts as being out-of-activation, no matter when you trigger it. (Infernal Ruling)
    As a result, you can't trigger only-during-activation effects (such as Critical Shred & Sustained Attack).
    • On the other hand, you can potentially get two charge attacks (one for your normal charge, one for the counter charge). (Infernal Ruling)
      This ruling still applies even after the 2018.07 update (Infernal Re-ruling)
  • Countercharge plus Admonition
    • If a model has both CC and Admonition, it can trigger both at the same time. A model moves nearby, it admonitions away, then countercharges back in.
  • Countercharge Inception
    • If a model [A] has Countercharge, and it charges an enemy model [B] that has Countercharge and Admonition, then ...
      • Model [A] charges and triggers CC and Admo on [B]
      • Model [B] Admo moves but before it can resolve its own CC, it triggers CC on [A]
      • You now have two models that have triggered CC simultaneously. So the Active player gets to resolve their one first.
  • Assault vs Countercharge ( Edit )
  • Countercharge & Cavalry ( Edit )
    • A model with Countercharge and Cavalry can make Impact Attacks during the countercharge. (Refer "Charges Outside of Activation" in the rulebook).
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Rules Clarification : Beat Back      (Edit)

  • You cannot use Beat Back if you destroy the target; because you can't advance towards a model that is no longer on the table. (Infernal Ruling)
  • You can trigger Beat Back even if the model is no longer in your melee range after the attack. For instance, if you used a Pitch to throw it away, you can still Beat it Back. (Locked thread)
  • The free advance doesn't depend on the target being pushed, but it is dependent on you trying to push them:
    • If you try to push something which Cannot Be Pushed (such as a Colossal), then it won't move and then you can advance directly towards it.
    • If you choose not to push your target, then you choose not to trigger Beat Back, so you don't get to advance.
    • (mk2 Ruling)
  • Beat Back can be used to push larger models.
  • Push - General     (Edit)   [Show/Hide]
    • Pushed models do not change their facing.
    • Pushed models move at half rate through difficult terrain. Also, Pathfinder doesn't apply during pushes.
    • Pushed models stop if they contact anything - a model of any size, or any obstacles or obstructions.
    • You don't get free strikes against pushed models, because it is "involuntary movement" and therefore does not count as an advance.
    • Pushed models suffer the effects of anything they move through (such as acid clouds).
    • If you use a Push vs a charging model (via a free strike for example), this will stop the charge movement (refer core rulebook).
      • However, if the pushed model is in melee range of its charge target after the push, then it is considered a successful charge. (Infernal Ruling)
      • In that scenario, you measure whether the charging model moved 3" or less excluding the push distance. (Infernal Ruling)
    • If you push a model to a position where it regains Incorporeal (for instance you push it out of range of an Exorcist) then what happens is (Being Checked by Infernals)
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Rules Clarification : Hyper-Aggressive      (Edit)

  • Because you must move directly towards your attacker, you cannot change facing after completing your Hyper-Aggressive move.
  • HA can be triggered more than once per turn.
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Rules Clarification : Leadership      (Edit)

  • If you have two Leaders handing out the same buff, then sometimes they stack (Bronzeback) and sometimes they don't (Exemplar Bastion). (Infernal Ruling)
    • See specific models for case-by-case Infernal Rulings.
  • If you have two Leaders handing out different buffs (such as Iona's Leadership giving Dodge, and the Wolf Rider Champion's Leadership giving Prowl) then the benefits do stack - they'll get both Dodge and Prowl. (Infernal Ruling)


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Rules Clarification : Puissance      (Edit)

  • The spell grants Unyielding rather than a direct ARM buff. It is therefore effective against Blessed weapons.

Rules Clarification : Unyielding - None yet. (Edit)