Difference between revisions of "Carnivean"

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=Other=
 
=Other=
 
===Trivia===
 
===Trivia===
Originally released in [[Primal Mk1]] (2006)
+
* Originally released in [[Primal Mk1]] (2006)
 +
* Comes in a plastic multi-kit with the [[Ravagore]] & [[Scythean]]. Older metal sculpts are still available, though not as parts from Privateer.
  
 
===Other Legion models===
 
===Other Legion models===

Latest revision as of 22:24, 18 February 2020

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Legion Logo.jpg Carnivean

Legion Heavy Warbeast

The warlocks that serve the dragon Everblight can call upon a myriad of dragonspawn, each a perfect engine of draconic destruction. The carnivean, an ancient and favored dragonspawn, shreds flesh, bone, and steel with its mighty claws and a shark-like maw.

Basic Info

Carnivean
Missing Info
Carnivean.png
COST {{{cacost}}}
UNIT SIZE {{{casize}}}
FA {{{cafa}}}
Warcaster 0
BASE Large
SPD 5
STR 12
MAT 6
RAT 5
M.A. N/A
DEF 11
ARM 18
CMD N/A
ESSENCE {{{essence}}}
FOCUS N/A
FURY 4
THRS 9
HP 30
F. Field N/A
WJP {{{wjp}}}
WBP {{{wbp}}}
IHP {{{ihp}}}
UNIT SIZE N/A
COST 18
N/A
N/A
FA U
N/A
Warcaster 1
BASE N/A
SPD N/A
STR N/A
MAT N/A
RAT N/A
DEF N/A
ARM N/A
CMD N/A
FOCUS N/A
FURY N/A
THRS N/A
HP N/A
WJP N/A
WBP N/A
UNIT SIZE N/A
COST N/A
FA N/A
N/A
Understanding
the Statblock

Abilities

Weapons

Animus

COST RNG AOE POW DUR OFF
Spiny Growth

1 SELF - - Round No
The spellcaster gains +2 ARM. If a non-warrior model hits the spellcaster with a melee attack, the attacking model suffers d3 damage points immediately after the attack is resolved unless the spellcaster was destroyed or RFP'd by the attack. Spiny Growth lasts for one round.

Theme Forces

Recent Changes

No changes since 2018.03


Thoughts on Carnivean

Carnivean in a nutshell

The Carnivean does it all. With three attacks including one POW 18, an assault spray, and a decent amount of Fury it's a strong beatstick and arguably the heaviest and beatiest of heavies the Legion can field. It's also, once you include Spiny Growth, the toughest of the heavy warbeasts the Legion can field (and right up there even without it). Having a 10" assault spray (even at RAT 5) puts it in the same niche as the Pureblood Warpwolf, the Road Hog, and Chiron; but it hits far harder than any of them. In short it can do just about everything - but you pay for everything you get and it can't do it all at once.

Its cost should be measured to the other warbeasts mentioned above:

  • At SPD 5 (and without Full Boar) it's the slowest of the warbeasts in its weight class, but has native Pathfinder - something that the others can achieve only with outside support, or the Warpwolf, who then must borrow STR boost from other models.
  • At DEF 11/ARM 18 it has the lowest defensive stats of any of the beasts in its class, and requires Spiny Growth to boost it.
  • The Carnivean hits harder - the other factions have to utilize caster-independent damage buffs (from which they're not short on).

Combos & Synergies

Due to its high cost, a Carnivean won't fit into every list, especially when crunching for points. That said, some lists may favor a Carnivean more than his other counterparts, but is generally a reliable beast in any battlegroup if you're not sure what else to take and have the space.

  • Absylonia1 - lacking most of the battlegroup-wide force multipliers of her epic form she rather tags along with fewer, but quality pieces. The Carnivean fits nicely into that role.
  • Rhyas1 - A Carnivean can profit tremendously from Rapport, both in terms of RAT and MAT. With her, his Assault spray might actually hit the squishy support hiding behind that warjack you really want dead. Or a warcaster/warlock if you lined it up just right. Outside theme lists he competes a bit with Typhon for this spell. While the Carnivean technically gets a bit more mileage out of the spell, Typhon is usually a bit more exciting target for it. Don't forget, use of Rapport is optional - if you use your own model for targeting a breath attack, you can revert to the basic RAT4, and use your superior RAT 6 on the enemy.
  • Thagrosh1 loves a Carnivean. Or maybe two! As Legion's only real tank beast under Legion's only real tank caster, the Carnivean makes for a good backbone to a beast brick. Against melee armies, Thagrosh's Carniveans can be effectively ARM22. +2 ARM for Spiny Growth and -2 STR against attackers trapped in Death Shroud. It's not too hard to achieve that with Thags' solid CMD stat. On top of that, he can cast Spiny Growth on himself for free, and Carnivean are a solid target for his feat if you didn't bring Typhon too.
  • Thagrosh2 - Most of the same logic applies here too, although he prefers a more diverse cast of beasts, especially since he can only buff the ARM of one beast at a time.
  • Saeryn1 - It's hard to say no to ARM23 Carnivean that bite back for a turn.
  • Seraph - SPD5 is slow in Legion, and the Slipstream can do a lot to help him still get the alpha strike.
  • Nephilim Bloodseer - Borrow Spiny Growth for his own survival - it is a model that likes to play forward to spread his Telemetry ability. If you're building a spellslinging list, there may be merit in including this combo as long as you also don't need the Bloodseer to use his own animus.
  • Vayl1 - Accuracy buff all by herself via Frost Field and Incite - precisely what the Carnivean needs. Leash can also add some speed boost if used wisely. Also, enemies will rarely risk coming closer to Vayl, until you can move in a Carni with Dark Sentinel.
  • Lylyth3 - With her feat the Carnivean's sub-par RAT ceases to be an issue, and with Battle Host you can spray up to 20" away. She can also make good use of its animus if has to play defensively.

Drawbacks & Downsides

  • Slow, expensive, and not really durable, even with its animus on.
  • Can become redundant: the Scythean fights better in melee, the Ravagore shoots better at range. If you don't want a jack-of-all trades, you might want to choose them.
  • Poor RAT - unlikely to hit anything at range without boosting.

Tips & Tricks

  • The Assault Spray has a 18" threat range and so can catch enemy casters napping.
  • Look for your charge/assault angles; you can frequently catch a lot of targets and/or from the rear if you end up in the right place after your charge.


Other

Trivia

  • Originally released in Primal Mk1 (2006)
  • Comes in a plastic multi-kit with the Ravagore & Scythean. Older metal sculpts are still available, though not as parts from Privateer.

Other Legion models

Legion Logo.jpg       Legion Index       (Edit)            
Battlegroup & Similar
Warlocks Absylonia1 - Absylonia2 - Anamag - Bethayne - Fyanna2 - Kallus1 - Kallus2 - Kryssa - Lylyth1 - Lylyth2 - Lylyth3 - Rhyas1 - Saeryn1 - Saeryn2 & Rhyas2 - Thagrosh1 - Thagrosh2 - Vayl1 - Vayl2
Other Warbeast Controllers Beast Mistress
Lesser Blight Wasps - Shredder - Harrier - Mekanoshredder - Stinger
Light Afflictor - Naga Nightlurker - Nephilim Bloodseer - Nephilim Bolt Thrower - Nephilim Protector - Nephilim Soldier - Raek - Teraph
Heavy Angelius - Carnivean - Neraph - Ravagore - Scythean - Seraph
Azrael - Golab - Proteus - Typhon - Zuriel
Gargantuans Archangel - Blightbringer
Units, Solos, & Battle Engines
Units B.N. Archers - B.N. Hex Hunters - B.N. Legionnaires - B.N. Raptors - B.N. Scather Crew - B.N. Swordsmen - B. Rotwings - B.O. Warmongers - B.O. Warspears - Chosen - Grotesque Banshees - Grotesque Raiders - Hellmouth - Ice Witches - Strider Blightblades - Strider Scouts - Spawning Vessel
Blackfrost Shard
Solos Beast Mistress - B.N Shepher - B.N. Sorceress - B.N. Warlord - Forsaken - Grotesque Assassin - Incubi - Spell Martyr - Strider Deathstalker - Succubus - B.O. Warmonger War Chief
Ammok - Annyssa Ryvaal - Fyanna the Lash - Craelix
Battle Engines Throne of Everblight
Theme Forces
Children of the Dragon - Oracles of Annihilation - Primal Terrors - Ravens of War
Minions
Refer to Who Works for Whom and/or Category: Legion of Everblight Minion
This index was last updated: 2020.05

Rules Clarifications

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Rules Clarification : Fire      (Edit)

  • Moving into "Shallow water" standard terrain does not cause continuous fire to expire. It's magic fire.
    • You can always use non-standard terrain if you agree with your opponent before the game starts, however.
  • A weapon can inflict continuous fire without itself being a fire damage weapon (for example, the Helios's fists). In this case, the attack can hurt models with Immunity:Fire it just won't apply the continuous effect.
  • In terms of which player's clock is running down during the Maintenance Phase: The active player will roll for expiration of all the continuous effects. Then the inactive player will roll for all the damages of the continuous effects. (Judge Ruling)
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Rules Clarification : Open Fist  (aka, Power Attack Throw)     (Edit)

  • Throw - General ( Edit )
    • See also the Throw article for a recap of the core Throw rules.
    • Because you move the target model between the attack roll and the damage roll, you can get different buffs applied to the two rolls. For instance, if you throw the target in or out of a Flanking model's melee range.
  • Throw - Power Attack
    • When you make a Throw Power Attack, no other abilities of the Fist weapon (such as Chain Strike) are applied unless they specifically mention Throws.
    • If you do a Power Attack Throw and you choose to throw the target directly away, no deviation is rolled to determine the final position of the model. (Locked thread)
    • A model that cannot be targeted by melee attacks (such as Una2's feat) cannot have models thrown at them, either. (Infernal Ruling)
    • Unresolved: Since throwing Model [A] at Model [B] involves making a melee attack roll vs Model [B] which is out of your melee range, it technically breaks a whole bunch of core rules. (Infernal Checking)
    • Even though you make a "melee attack roll" vs Model [B] you don't actually make a melee attack vs it. Also, the damage it suffers is from Collateral damage, not from the original attack. So you can't trigger stuff like Snacking from damage you did to Model B.


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Rules Clarification:  : Warbeast      (Edit)
(Click Expand to read)

See also the Warbeast page for a recap of the core warbeast rules.

Forcing

  • If an ability doesn't specify how much it costs to force, it costs 1. (Infernal Ruling)

Animi

  • A single Animus can be on several models at the same time. (Infernal Ruling)
  • Unlike in Mk2, in Mk3 if a model has an animus on it from any source and then another animus is cast on that model, it will lose the first instance of an animus and will be replaced by the second. It does not matter if either the first animus or the second animus is from a warlock or warbeast. (Infernal Ruling)
  • An animi cast by a warlock is an animi and a spell. (Infernal Ruling)

Transferring Damage

  • If both the warlock and the warbeast are damaged by the same attack (such as an AOE), then you need to apply the 'normal' damage to the warbeast before the transferred damage. This distinction can be important when you're working out who/what actually destroyed the beast. (Infernal Ruling)

Frenzy

  • You cannot trigger optional abilities during a Frenzy (such as Cleave). (Infernal Ruling)
  • You must trigger compulsory abilities during a Frenzy ... unless that ability generates an extra attack (like Berserk). In that case, you don't get the Berserk attack. (Infernal Ruling)
  • A warbeast may not make an Assault shot as part of a Frenzy activation. (Refer latest errata)
  • If the closest target to a warbeast resolving a Frenzy cannot be charged, then the warbeast will forfeit movement and action (as per the rules of having to charge and not being able to). (Infernal Ruling)
  • If a frenzying warbeast can't reach its charge target (because the charge lane is blocked by terrain, etc) then it will make a failed charge and end its activation. (Locked thread)
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Rules Clarification:  : Assault      (Edit)
(Click Expand to read)

General

Step 1: Declare the charge

  1. Are you in already melee? With any enemy, not just your charge target?
    • If yes, you don't get an Assault attack at all (Refer to the latest Errata). Instead it's just a normal charge.
    • If no, continue to Step 2.
  2. Note: You cannot be "in melee" with a stationary/knocked down target. Feel free to declare charges (and Assault shots) in this case.
    • You can even charge a knocked down model you're in B2B with, advance 0", and get your ranged attack and your melee attack(s).

Step 2: Move the charging model

  1. As soon as the movement is finished, determine whether it was a successful charge or not.
    • Do this before resolving anything that triggers on "Ends Movement" (like Admonition, Countercharge).
    • Do this before resolving your Assault attack.
  2. Did you make a successful charge? You get the ranged attack even though you're "in melee" (not yet though). Refer to the latest Errata.
  3. Did you fail the charge? You will get the Assault shot anyway (not yet though).
    • Did you fail the charge, but end your movement in melee with someone different to your charge target? You get the ranged attack even though you're "in melee" (not yet though). Refer to the latest Errata and also this (Infernal Ruling)
  4. Now that you've figured out whether the charge successful, you (or your opponent) can trigger "Ends Movement" effects. (after this, you can make the ranged attack).
    • Nothing that happens from this point onwards will retroactively change a failed charge into a successful charge, or vice versa.
  5. If your charge was successful you may use "any time" abilities between 'finishing movement' and 'starting Assault attack'. (Infernal Ruling)
  6. If you fail your charge, you may not use "any time" abilities before or after making the Assault attack. (Infernal Ruling)
Tip lightbulb.png

Tip !
Assault is not a "triggered ability" and it will never trigger simultaneously with another ability that triggers/resolves at "ends movement". Instead, the other ability is always resolved before the Assault shot.

Step 3: Make the ranged attack

  1. The ranged attack is optional.
  2. Since the Assault attack is outside your Combat Action, you can only do a basic ranged attack. CRA & Special ranged attacks are only allowed during your Combat Action, you can't do them. (Infernal Ruling CRA & Special Attack)
  3. Did you move at least 3" during the charge movement? Who cares, that is irrelevant to the Assault attack!
  4. Make your ranged attack vs your charge target
    • If the charge target is already dead (which can happen when units charge) then you don't get to redirect your Assault attack vs 'someone else'. You simply don't get an Assault attack. (Infernal Ruling)
    • A model which can do something "instead of making a ranged attack" (such as the Spriggan's Targeting Flare) then they can do that as an Assault attack. (Infernal Ruling)
    • If your ranged attacks triggers other attacks/damage that occur "after the attack" (such as Drag or Electro Leap) then those will resolve as per normal, regardless of whether you had a successful charge or not. (Infernal Ruling)
  5. Is the target in melee with the shooter?
    • If yes, then you ignore the +4 DEF bonus (as per the 3rd paragraph of "Targeting a Model in Melee" (TMM) rules)
    • If no, resolve the ranged attack exactly the same as if it were a normal ranged attack.

Step 4: If you miss

  1. If you miss the target, and the target is not in melee with you, then resolve it the same way as a normal ranged attack.
  2. If you miss the target, and the target is in melee with you, do not reroll the attack against another model. It misses completely.

Step 5: After finishing the Assault attack

  1. If it was an unsuccessful charge, your activation now ends.
  2. If it was a successful charge, and your charge target is ...
    • still alive, then you get your charge attack (as per the charge rules)
    • dead, then you get your initial melee attack(s) vs anyone still in your melee range (as per the charge rules).
  3. Either way, you don't get to make more ranged attacks (other than the obvious exceptions like Gunfighter, of course).


Units

  • Move all models in the unit before making any Assault attacks. (Infernal Ruling)
  • Make all Assault attacks before making any Charge attacks. (Infernal Ruling)
  • Each model in the unit is effectively "stalled" while you move/shoot the other models. This "stall" does not create an opportunity to use "any time" abilities. (Infernal Ruling)
  • If a trooper's target dies before they make their Assault shot, they don't get to redirect it. You just skip their Assault shot. (Infernal Ruling)
  • You cannot make Assault attacks while out of formation, as per the regular formation rules about making attacks.
  • Assault & CRA (Edit)
    • You cannot mix Combined Range Attacks with Assault shots, as CRA works during your combat action and Assault shots occur before it. (Infernal Ruling)

Other

  • Warbeasts
    • Warbeasts cannot use Assault during a Frenzy. Refer to the latest errata.
  • Assault vs Countercharge ( Edit )
    • With reference to the Activation Timing (Apdx A), Countercharge occurs at Step 5, and Assault occurs at Step 5 for independent models and Step 6 for units. (Infernal Ruling about the Step 6)
    • So, if a model with Assault finishes its charge movement within range of a model with Countercharge then...
      • If it's an independent model then you need to resolve the Assault shot before making the Countercharge move. This is because both abilities occur at the same time but active player effects are resolved first.
      • But if it's a model belonging to a unit, then you need to resolve the Countercharge immediately, then finish moving the rest of the unit, then start Assault shots.
  • Assault & Drag ( Edit )
    • You determine whether a charge was successful or not before making the Assault attack.
    • If you make an unsuccessful charge but then use Drag to get your charge target into melee range, then:
      • It is still a failed charge and your activation is going to end after the Assault attack is resolved. (Infernal Ruling)
      • You will get the free melee attack from Drag as part of resolving the Assault ranged attack. (Infernal Ruling)
      • Whether or not your charge was successful, this free melee attack is not a charge attack. (Infernal Ruling)
      • You won't be able to purchase additionals (because your activation ended).
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Rules Clarification : Eyeless Sight      (Edit)

  • A model that ignores Stealth must ignore both aspects: both (1) the auto-missing, and (2) the 'not counting as an intervening model' parts.
    • This can have some strange interactions with casters & channelers, if one has Eyeless Sight and one does not. There are examples on the Category:Channeler page.
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Rules Clarification : Pathfinder      (Edit)

Rules Clarification : Soulless - None yet. (Edit)

Rules Clarification : Spiny Growth - None yet. (Edit)