Hollowmen

Hollowmen Grymkin Unit Lantern Man Command Attachment Hollow Holden Character Weapon Attachment

Prime This model is available in one Prime Army, Grymkin. It can also be used in the Unlimited game mode. You can view the other Mk3 models that made it into a Legacy Army at this page. Note that the rest of this page is about the model's Mark III rules.

Cowards who flee their posts in war their comrades do betray. Lured by golden lantern light, they die while off astray.

Deserters often follow the alluring glow of a strange lantern as they stumble through the dark—and perish. They rise again as empty husks, stripped of hate and fear. Now they bear rifles and march beneath that lantern in the ranks of the Hollowmen.

Holden serves as a warning to all who would oppose the Defiers. This creature was once a promising young man who might have been a hero, but his courage faltered and he failed in the face of the Wicked Harvest. For the impertinence of being sent against them, the Defiers transformed him into their own deadly tool, but they kept a tiny shard of Holden within his hollow shell to remember them. All Holden can do now is watch in silent horror as his actions answer a will that is not his own.

Basic Info

Hollowmen
Missing Info
	COST {{{cacost}}} UNIT SIZE {{{casize}}} FA {{{cafa}}} Warcaster 0 BASE Small SPD 5 STR MAT 5 RAT 5 M.A. N/A DEF 12 ARM 12 CMD 7 ESSENCE {{{essence}}} FOCUS N/A FURY N/A THRS N/A HP 1 F. Field N/A WJP {{{wjp}}} WBP {{{wbp}}} IHP {{{ihp}}} FA U UNIT SIZE 6 / 10 +1 CA +1 WA COST 8 / 13 +3 CA +3 WA 1.3 pts each (min) 1.7 pts each (max) N/A Warcaster 1 COST N/A N/A Understanding the Statblock

Abilities

• Entire Unit
  • Eyeless Sight
  • Apparition - During your Control Phase, place this model anywhere completely within 2" of its current location.
  • Reposition [3"] - At the end of an activation in which it did not run or fail a charge, this model can advance up to 3", then its activation ends.

• Leader & Grunts only
  • Combined Ranged Attack

• Lantern Man (CA) only
  • He has 5 hitpoints, but otherwise the exact same statline.
  • Officer
  • Granted: Blood-Bound - While this model is in formation, models in its unit gain Blood-Bound. (Blood-Bound - When a model with Blood-Bound destroys a living enemy model with an attack during its activation, after the attack is resolved you can return to play one destroyed model in its unit. Place the returned model completely within 3" of the attacking model. The returned model cannot activate the turn it returns to play. The destroyed enemy model is removed from play and does not provide a soul or corpse token.)
  • Magic Ability [ 6 ] - This model can cast spells. Normally this uses up the model's Combat Action and as such is limited to one spell per activation, but exceptions do exist.

• Holden (WA) only
  • He has +1 DEF, +2 RAT, and 5 hitpoints
  • Annoyance - Living enemy models within 1" of this model suffer -1 to attack rolls.
  • Granted: Pathfinder - While this model is in formation, models in its unit gain Pathfinder.
  • Poisoned Fate - If Holden is in play during your Maintenance Phase roll a d6 (or flip a coin). On a roll of 1-3 (heads) this unit gains Bane this turn. On a roll of 4-6 (tails), Holden's weapons gain Weaken this turn. (Bane - A non-living model hit by a weapon with Bane suffers –2 ARM for one round.) (Weaken - A living model hit by a weapon with Weaken suffers -2 STR and DEF for one round.)
  • Prowl - While this model has concealment, it gains stealth.
  • Sniper - Instead of making a damage roll to resolve a ranged attack, this model can inflict 1 point of damage. A model disabled by a ranged attack made by this model cannot make a Tough roll.

Weapons

• Leader & Grunts
  • Military Rifle - 10" range, POW 11 gun
  • Bayonet - 1" reach, P+S 9 melee weapon
    • Brutal Charge - This model gains +2 to charge attack damage rolls with this weapon.

• Lantern Man (CA)
  • Unarmed - This model has no weapons.

• Holden (WA)
  • Hunting Rifle - 14" range, POW 10 attack
    • Damage Type: Magical
  • Trench Knife - 0.5" reach, P+S 9 melee attack.

Spells (Lantern Man)

	COST	RNG	AOE	POW	DUR	OFF
Ghost Light	(★ Attack)	10	-	-	-	Yes
On a hit, you take control of target living enemy non-warcaster, non-warlock warrior model. You can immediately advance the enemy model up to 3", then Ghost Light expires. The enemy model cannot be targeted by free strikes during this movement. A model can be affected by Ghost Light only once per turn.
Obscuring Mist	(★ Action)	-	(★)	-	Round	No
Models in this unit gain concealment. Models are not affected while out of formation. Obscuring Mist lasts for one round.

Theme Forces

• Bump in the Night. They gain Rise in this theme.
• Dark Menagerie

Thoughts on Hollowmen

Holden, Weapon Attachment

Hollowmen in a nutshell

Hollowmen are a versatile multi-tool available to the Grymkin Bump in the Night theme. While on paper they appear to be a poor man's Trencher Infantry they have some very compelling and unique tech. They have recursion and Eyeless Sight, a very powerful rule for an infantry unit with guns. Notably, Hollowmen are the Grymkin's only full sized ranged unit.

Hollowmen are best used as a medium range unit with no dedicated purpose, aka a skirmisher. Hollowmen will never dish out the melee punishment of Dread Rots, but they can clear a heavy if they can get the charge. They're very good at clearing jamming elements (or jamming themselves), due to the Lantern Man's Blood-Bound ability. Hollow Holden can upgrade the unit into a premier, if somewhat random debuff piece, that isn't slowed down by terrain. ideally the Hollow Men are suited to support aggressive plays by other models and occasionally killing a few infantrymen to restock.

Hollowmen keep your opponent honest, there's few tricks which can get around a 10-man CRA with Eyeless Sight.

Their weakness comes in their stats and Reposition3 being the only way they can keep out of danger, coming back to life has it's advantages but they won't stay alive if misused. Def 12 is pretty easy to hit and arm 12 is even easier to damage.

Thoughts on the Attachments

Lantern Man (CA)

The lantern man brings the cost of the Hollowmen unit from sheer chaff (1.3pt/model) up to a roughly elite unit's cost (1.6pt/model). For this, he offers essentially no increase in offensive ability, no mini feat, no threat range extension. So, why would you bring him?

1. He provides RFP on the guns and melee of the Hollowmen unit. Ranged RFP is exceptionally rare in the game, and the hollowmen are one of the best sources of it anywhere. It also is one of the "True" Remove from Play effects in Grymkin that denies souls, unlike the RFP on the heavies. Remove from Play is very powerful as an effect to have against the right armies.
2. He brings concealment to the unit - this takes their terrible statline and makes it so its sometimes decent against enemy ranged attacks. This is of course, assuming your opponent has no sprays, and their ranged force doesnt ignore concealment.
3. He adds an additional defensive element to the unit - Recursion. Bloodbound is a very powerful recursion mechanic that actively punishes your opponent for running many troops that are killed easily by Hollowmen. If you are returning Hollowmen with this effect you will find the unit becomes hardier and more resiliant in an unconventional way.

Essentially the things to look out for is if your opponents are going to be running living armies (ie - NOT warjack heavy, undead heavy etc), and to consider if you need remove from play. If the answer to both of these is "No" then you should leave the lantern man at home. Do not treat him like an auto include, and do not netdeck him into your lists. He requires a very specific consideration of the match ups you'll face and the meta you play in.

Holden (WA)

Holden has fallen to the Grymkin at the Battle of Boars Gate! He has joined his fellow cowards and deserters with the Hollowmen. Holden before his turn was a marksman and a ranger. Holden provides hollowmen with some very powerful effects, so the question is, is Holden worth bringing? what he brings to the table is:

• Pathfinder - a common ability but nothing to sniff at, as it affects the Reposition movement as well as the main move it let's the unit really get where they need to go.
• Holden's coin flip mechanic - an odd ability, as you can't build a battle plan around random effects but it does help the unit pick their targets a bit better. Their will be some match ups where 1 of these abilities can't be triggered and that should be factored into the decision to include Holden.
  • Weaken is... situationally useful. Sometimes it will be a benefit, like during an assassination, or gunning down a living warbeast. However the -STR part is not very useful for Bump in the Night. The biggest issue with weaken is most living infantry will just die to the damage and most heavier targets will still be a threat to the hollow men as their armour isn't great.
  • Bane is fantastic, everyone likes a bit more hitting power on non-living.
• Sniper Rifle - Holden is a powerful sniper in his own regard. RAT 7, long range, long threat eyeless sight makes him a terror for many solos and command attachments.

When evaluating Holden for 3pts, the role he plays as a deadly sniper who can provide grymkin with something they usually lack - a scalpel to pick out something important is very unique. The sniper rule means he'll also not randomly fail against a tough model too. Poisoned fate at that point is effectively a "bonus" effect that can sometimes be very powerful. Holden pulls enough weight and is available as a theme freebie that he is quite worth it despite the randomness of his coin flip mechanic.

He is best taken with the Lantern man, who provides him with stealth (through prowl) and bloodbound. Holden can be returned on full health from bloodbound as it has no restrictions regarding characters.

Essentially - take him to hand out pathfinder, or if you feel like you play in situations where having a long range accurate eyeless sight sniper would solve problems if he does more than this wonderful, if he doesn't he still brings lots else.

Combos & Synergies

As a generalist infantry who slogs forward with a goal to face a wide variety of targets, both in melee and at range the Hollowmen have a surprising amount of synergy.

• The Warlocks of Grymkin are almost all very happy to include Hollowmen in their army, and bring some kind of interesting benefit for them
  • The Heretic - will usually run two units of them, as his Trump arcana will benefit both their ranged and their melee abilities. He can also place Fury onto them to give them POW 14 charges which is high enough to allow hollowmen to chip down even khador heavies.
  • Old Witch 3 - Provides them with the best ranged protection in the faction with Windstorm. It can't be over stated how much Hollowmen appreciate this. Their defensive stats are very poor, and windstorm also protects them from blasts that would massacre them. She also can push their recursion even further with hellhole. Additionally, there is no penalty to the Hollowmen when she uses her gun at all, as Eyeless Sight allows them to essentially ignore concealment and the cloud effect. She can also fix their accuracy either through her gun or Scourge.
  • The King of Nothing - can cloud wall without them caring, as they can casually fire through it. Scything touch lets them deliver in melee in a similiar way to Heretic. King can buff their ranged attacks during assassination run too by using sands of fate to get close to the opposing caster.
  • The Dreamer - While not typically run in Bump, it should be noted she can use the little phantasm to apply mark target. She also provides cover for them with Artifice of Deviation. However keep in mind how rare it is to see Dreamer run in Bump, it is definitely a "snowflake" build.
• Glimmer Imp - fixes their RAT and MAT against key targets.
• Twilight Sisters - can return additional hollowmen to play when they don't have better options. Makes the amount of potential hollowmen recursion a little silly.

Drawbacks & Downsides

As a generalist infantry hollowmen are a jack of all trades, master of none unit. A standard melee unit hits harder and more accurately, a ranged unit will beat them in a fair gunfight. They are often ridiculed as the poor man's Trencher Infantry.

• their accuracy is appalling in terms of Warmachine in 2018. Most armies have veteran leaders and other hit fixers, so rat 5 units are rarely truly rat 5. Hollowmen however are rat 5 and mat 5 and the main fixer for this is an expensive solo who dies in the process usually.
• Their defensive stats are laughable. 12/12 is a statline that gets slaughtered by all but the weakest of attacks. Even the CA does not mitigate this much as concealment has many answers and does not work against melee.
• Their recursion only works against living models - meaning against many lists they lose the ability entirely
• Low range guns brings them into danger of retaliation against essentially most enemies except the slowest and most ponderous.
• Dedicated anti shooting tech such as windstorm, swamp pit, Rask feat, artifice of deviation, dig in etc really hurts them as they gain value shooting primarily, even if they close to melee later. If they are forced to fight as a melee unit with no shooting element they will greatly disappoint you
• While CRA is great, sometimes it can make them feel like they have a low output when your 10 man unit only makes five (better) attacks.
• Holden is kinda match specific, you either need pathfinder and can use poison fate. Or you risk it doing nothing 50% of the time. As just a sniper 3 points is a bit of an ask.
  • Some match ups (such as Maelok) because so much undead is on the field poisoned fate does nothing.

Tricks & Tips

• When models with 2" melee go base to base with you to jam - apparate behind them and shoot them in the back.
• Models with less than 2" melee cant jam you at all thanks to apparition.
• When choosing CRA size take into account what you need to hit and how much damage you'll do. 2 man CRAs are very often the most efficient but this is not universal.
• Be very aware of how much of the unit your opponent can kill - they die easily and you want to gain value off recursion and keep an effective unit chugging
• Hollow Holdens roll happens in the maintenance phase - this lets you plan your activations dont forget him!
  • If you roll Weaken consider aiming at taking out a beast. Say you combine Curse of Shadows along with landing a Weaken shot, 2 man CRAs will be effectively rat 9 pow 15. Also briefly consider Assassination whenever you roll Weaken.
  • If you roll reposition 3 then you can skirmish with your hollowmen better. It lets you avoid the clumping that gets hollowmen destroyed. You can also move out of LOS by moving deeper into forests or slipping behind buildings etc.
• On rare occasions the lantern man can use his ghost light to great effect. For example if a road block model like a MoW drakhun toes a zone it can be much more convenient to just walk it out and turn it around - also cancelling its shield.
• Hollowmen are fast! They have an 11" melee threat and a 17" shooting threat - both of these are a little higher than typical. Holden himself has a terrifying 21" threat
• Hollowmen get to aim surprisingly often, make sure you make good use of Apparition to gain the aiming bonus against important targets who were initially out of range.
• You get to ignore a lot of standard tech against shooting, such as Concealment, Cloud walls and Stealth. This essentially is the compensation for being RAT 5 MAT 5, and it is a very powerful rule.
• You can bait the opponent into fighting cheap as chips chaff hollowmen with their guns, and then nail them with your powerful backline models such as Neigh Slayers

Other

Trivia

Beefeater Hollowman, Smog Con 2017 exclusive

• Unit and CA released with the Faction launch (2017.06)
• Holden released in 2018.06
• Holden's backstory was shaped by the players in a narrative league that stretched across several seasons. You can find the pre-Grymkin versions of Holden on the League Models article.
• There is a limited edition sculpt.

Other Grymkin models

Grymkin Index       (Edit)
Battlegroup
Warlocks	The Child - The Dreamer - The Heretic - The King of Nothing - The Wanderer - Old Witch 3 Arcana Warlock Attachment: Baron Tonguelick
Warbeasts	Lesser: Crabbit	Light: Frightmare - Gorehound - Rattler
	Heavy: Cage Rager - Clockatrice - Skin & Moans	Gargantuan: Slaughterhouse
Units, Solos, & Battle Engines
Units	Dread Rots - Hollowmen - Mad Caps - Malady Man - Murder Crows - Neigh Slayers - Piggybacks - Twilight Sisters
Solos	Baron Tonguelick, Lord of Warts - Cask Imp - Defiled Archon - The Four Horseymans - Glimmer Imp - Grave Ghoul - Gremlin Swarm - Isiah, Dread Harvester - Lady Karianna Rose - Lord Longfellow - Trapperkin - Weird Wendell - Witchwood
Battle Engines	Death Knell
Theme Forces		Minions
Dark Menagerie - Bump in the Night		Refer to Category: Grymkin Minion
This index was last updated: 2021.08

Rules Clarifications

Rules Clarification : Powerful Charge  and/or Brutal Charge     (Edit) If you declare a charge but move less than 3", then the attack doesn't count as a "Charge Attack" and you won't get the bonus.

Rules Clarification : Unarmed      (Edit) Since this model has no weapons it does not have a melee range. This means it can't engage other models, declare charges, or make free strikes Also it can't gain abilities that require a melee range (such as Ragman granting this model Dark Shroud). However, other models that do have melee weapons can engage this model. So this model can still gain the "target in melee" shooting bonus.

Rules Clarification:  : Magical Damage      (Edit) (Click Expand to read)

* The "Damage Type: Magical" is not inherited by "secondary" damage from a weapon. That is, stuff like arcs (Electro Leap) or hazards (Scather). (Infernal Ruling) All spells have "Damage Type: Magical" (refer errata). This is inherited by "immediate" secondary damage (such as Eruption of Spines). (Infernal Ruling) and might be inherited by "lingering" secondary damage (see below). If a spell leaves a template in play that does damage to models that walk around in it, then: if it is not described as a hazard it will do magical damage to models that walk around in it. (Example: Razor Wall) if it is a hazard then it will not do magical damage to models that walk around in it. Instead, it does whatever damage type is specified by the spell description. (Example: Breath of Corruption). (Infernal Ruling) If a weapon/spell includes Magic Damage and another kind of elemental damage it will still damage Incorporeal models. Incorporeal models are not affected by the rule "if an attack does multiple types of damage and a model is immune to at least one it is immune to the entire attack." The phrase "immune to non-magical damage" should be interpreted as "immune to damage that doesn't include Damage Type: Magical" (not interpreted as "has immunity to Corrosion and Electricity and Cold and etc.")

Rules Clarification : Combined Ranged Attack      (Edit) CRA cannot target models in melee ... unless the target is a huge-based model or the attacker has War-Tempered. If you give the attack-leader a buff to their attack (such as Guidance) then that buff applies to the combined attack (even though the other participants don't have the buff). (Locked thread) Assault & CRA (Edit) You cannot mix Combined Range Attacks with Assault shots, as CRA works during your combat action and Assault shots occur before it. (Infernal Ruling)

Rules Clarification : Eyeless Sight      (Edit) A model that ignores Stealth must ignore both aspects: both (1) the auto-missing, and (2) the 'not counting as an intervening model' parts. This can have some strange interactions with casters & channelers, if one has Eyeless Sight and one does not. There are examples on the Category:Channeler page. Blind vs Eyeless Sight (Edit) If a model is Blinded, and then given Eyeless Sight, then that model ignores Blind ... but it is technically still Blinded. So if you somehow later lose Eyeless Sight (for instance walking out of the range of Menoth's Sight), it will immediately go back to suffering the effects of Blind. (Infernal Ruling) Also this means stuff that only works vs Blind models (ie Hidden Blade) will still trigger vs a "Was Blinded but then got Eyeless" model. Anti-Cloud abilities vs Burning Earth (Edit) If you make a piece of terrain "Burning Earth" it counts as a cloud effect in addition to it's original type. This has 2 odd rulings: If any part of the terrain piece is "hit" by an ability that makes clouds expire (such as Gale Winds) then the entire terrain piece is taken off the table. (Infernal Ruling) If a model can ignore clouds but not the original terrain type, they don't ignore the terrain. For instance if you have a burning forest, then Eyeless Sight can't see through the forest. (Infernal Ruling)

Rules Clarification : Apparition      (Edit) Apparition is an "Other" Control Phase effect, so it happens at Step 7 of the Control Phase. It happens after paying for upkeeps, Power Up, etc If you have another "Other" Control Phase effect, you get to choose the order to resolve them. If a model is B2B with you when you use Apparition then they will be exactly 2" away afterwards. So you'll still be in the melee range of anything with RNG 2 or higher. Unit members must always be placed in formation. Refer to the "Placed" section of the core rulebook. If a trooper can't be placed in formation (because it's more than 2" out of formation to begin with) then it can't be placed at all. The unit commander is always "In Formation" by definition, so can be placed where it likes.

Rules Clarification : Reposition      (Edit) Models out of formation cannot move via Reposition. Refer to the "Out of Formation" rules in the core rulebook. End of Activation (Edit) You cannot resolve two end-of-activation movement effects (refer to "End of Activation Movement" in the core rulebook). For EOA stuff that doesn't involve movement, though, it gets a bit more murky: Some EOA abilities explicitly state your activation ends as part of resolving the ability (like Reposition), and some don't (like Refuge). Whether it is explicit it or not, by definition an EOA ability is the last thing you can do for that activation. For instance, if you resolve Refuge and then continue your activation to cast more spells, then you have not used Refuge at the end of your activation. You cannot do an "at any time" ability during or after triggering an EOA ability; you cannot cast spells, purchase additional attacks, use a mini-feat, etc. If you start resolving an EOA movement (such as Reposition) then you cannot trigger abilities that occur "at any time" (such as Go To Ground). Because you can't trigger it while resolving the EOA movement, and after the EOA movement your activation has ended. (Infernal Ruling) For units: if any model in the unit starts resolving the unit's EOA movement, then no model in the unit can trigger an any-time ability. (Infernal Ruling) See also the training article: LPG - End of Activation.

Rules Clarification : Officer      (Edit) Even if they're not on the Officer's card, an Officer can give (and benefit from) any non-standard orders that are on the unit's card (such as Shield Wall). Refer main rulebook. A Ranking Officer can't do this, though. When the Officer dies, the Leader model becomes the new Unit Commander (you don't get to choose). But if your unit doesn't include a Leader model, then you do get to choose any of the remaining models to be the new Unit Commander. You don't swap the model, but it may be worth putting a token down so you can tell that grunt apart.

Rules Clarification : Tactics vs Granted     (Edit) Granted = The unit loses the ability as soon as the model that grants it is taken off the table. (think "G for Goes away") Tactics = The unit keeps the ability for the entire game, regardless of who dies. (think "Tac-Tick = K for Keeps")   Granted [ Vengeance ] If the model granting Vengeance dies, the unit will not get any Vengeance attacks. It is "If you have Vengeance, and you were damaged last turn, you get a move+attack." It is not "If you get damaged, you get Vengeance next turn." If you lose Vengeance halfway through resolving Vengeance, then you stop resolving Vengeance immediately. (Infernal Ruling)

Rules Clarification : Blood-Bound      (Edit) Blood-Bound works on both ranged and melee attacks. The RFP always triggers vs living models, even if the unit is already at full strength. Only the "can return one model" part is optional. (Infernal Ruling) If your opponent takes control of your Blood-Bound model, they cannot use it to return models to your unit nor an enemy unit. While under the opponent's control, it is an independent model and so there is no "unit" to return models to. Unit Attachments (such as the Cephalyx Dominator or Morrowan Battle Priest) can be brought back via Blood Bound, even though the rule isn't on their card. A Morrowan Battle Priest attached to The Devil's Shadow Mutineers returns with 1 box. (Infernal Ruling) Out-of-activation Blood-Bound If a model is brought back with a Vengeance attack, the newly spawned model also gets a Vengeance attack. (Infernal Ruling) It won't get a Vengeance move, because the unit needs to complete Vengeance moves before anyone has a Vengeance attack. If an ability or feat is worded to give a "model/unit" an out-of-activation attack (such as Stryker2's feat) then models spawned by those ability/feat attacks will also get to attack via the ability/feat. (Infernal Ruling) Similar to Vengeance, spawned models won't get the free move part of Stryker2's feat. Return to Play - Own Unit (Edit) If you have a model that can return models to its own unit during its own activation (such as Bane Warriors or Blood-Bound) then: Models returned "at any time" (Bane Warriors) do not benefit from any orders issued to the unit. Orders need to be issued first, before using an "Any Time" ability. Orders cannot affect models not on the table. Models returned elsewhen during the activation (Blood-Bound) do not benefit from any orders issued to the unit for the same logic. (Infernal Ruling) If anyone in the unit has attacked, then the returned models can't use their Normal Movement. If no one has attacked, then they can. (Locked thread)

Rules Clarification : Magic Ability      (Edit) Using a Magic Ability counts as a spell, for effects such as Spell Ward, Witch Hunter, etc. Combat Action Nearly all Magic Ability spells require the spellcaster to use their Combat Action to cast the spell. As such it is not an "at any time" ability (like it is when warcasters/warlocks cast spells). This means ... You must complete your movement before you use a MA. A model in a unit cannot use its Combat Action to cast a spell until all members of the unit have completed their movement. (Infernal Ruling) You cannot make initial ranged or initial melee attacks on the same turn you use a MA. You cannot buy additional melee/ranged attacks after using a MA special attack. Refer to the core rulebook, "Special attacks listed as a rule of the model itself are neither melee attacks nor ranged attacks. The rules for these special attacks indicate the nature of any additional attacks that can be made afterward, if any." You cannot use a MA on the same turn you charge. Because a charge must (almost always) be followed by a melee attack. Non-Combat Action There are a few models that can use a Magic Ability without using their Combat Action. These models get around all the restrictions listed above. Models with Geomancy or Necromancy can use a Magic Ability at "any time" just like a warcaster/warlock. Models with Battle Wizard or Necrophage can make melee attacks then get a bonus "free" spell. Models with Combat Caster can cast a spell before charging, then do a normal charge + melee attack. Note that Battle Wizards, Combat Casters, etc have the option to use their Combat Action to cast a spell. Their special rule is in addition to the normal spell casting, not instead of.

Rules Clarification : Ghost Light      (Edit) Taking Control of an Enemy Model (Edit)   [Show/Hide] General Several abilities start with the sentence "Take control of a model" then a full stop, then a bunch of stuff you can do with that model. You can't uncouple the first sentence from the rest of the "do stuff" sentence(s), in other words if you want to "do stuff" then you have to "Take control". (Infernal Ruling) Taking control of a model means it is now friendly to you, and will immediately be engaged by it's erstwhile allies. This will limit your ability to make ranged attacks. If you get to make an advance with the controlled model, this can allow the original owner to take free strikes against his own model. He doesn't have to take these, of course. The controlled model does not have a proper Activation, so stuff like Chain Strike won't apply. You can use abilities on the controlled model, as long as they're not restricted to "during its activation" or "during its Combat Action". For example, you can use Mental Force. (Infernal Ruling) Buffs and effects: The controlled model counts as a "friendly model" and will benefit from any "while within" (aura) buffs that your own models are handing out (such as Mark Target), (assuming the controlled model meets the criteria for the buff). If the controlled model has already been hit by a "currently within" (pulse) debuff, then it will keep that debuff while under your control. Even if that pulse only affected enemy models (such as Deneghra1's feat) - temporarily changing who is friendly/enemy doesn't change who was/wasn't affected by the pulse. If your opponent is the same faction, then the controlled model will count as a "friendly faction model" and even more buffs are potentially available (such as Veteran Leader). Theme abilities: If a model gains an ability via a Theme Force rule, and then the opponent takes it over, it keeps the theme ability. (Infernal Ruling) Movement You can advance a model into an area and force them to take damage (like an acid cloud, or a Razor Wall template), but they only take damage once per advance (ref Prime rulebook pg 65). Thus you cannot keep moving them micro-millimetres in and out of said area to inflict infinite damage. The model is friendly while under your control, so you can't force free strikes by walking it past your own models. You can, however, walk it past your opponent's models and politely ask if they want to take free strikes against their own model. Attacks Many "Take Control" abilities allow a basic melee attack. Some allow a basic attack. Gunfighters cannot make a ranged attack unless they're allowed the later. Point Blank attacks cannot be made with temporarily controlled models, as Point Blank is only allowed 'during activation.' With reference to the attack sequence (appendix A) your control of the model doesn't expire until after Step 14. So you can potentially trigger abilities like Snacking (Step 11.4). As long as it's not limited to "during combat action" or "during activation". Destroying the Controlled model If the model is destroyed or RFP'd while under your control (for instance you walked it into a hazard), this has two consequences: It is considered to be under your control at the moment it is taken off the table: Your opponent can't reave fury off a warbeast destroyed this way, because it is an enemy warbeast when it is taken off the table. Your opponent can't trigger stuff that depends on a "Friendly model" being destroyed (such as Righteous Vengeance). You can't trigger stuff that depends on an "Enemy model" being destroyed (such as Cull Soul). It returns to the original owner once it's off the table: Your opponent can use Spirit Bond to get fury from the dead warbeast. Your opponent can use Return To Play abilities to get it back on the table (assuming it wasn't RFP'd). Taking control of an enemy Trooper (member of a unit) A trooper you take control of becomes an independent model. Thus: It will not benefit from any bonuses that it gets from its comrades (such as Gang, Shield Wall, etc). It will not benefit from any bonuses that rely on the trooper being "in formation" (such as Granted and Tactics abilities). Spells on a unit are considered to be on the "unit", not on the "models that make up the unit". So a controlled trooper will not benefit from any spells on the unit. If you take control of the last survivor of a unit then the "unit" ceases to exist for the duration of the control. This means that any spells on the "unit" will expire. Woo, free dispel! (Infernal Ruling)

Rules Clarification : Obscuring Mist - None yet. (Edit)

Rules Clarification : Annoyance - None yet. (Edit)

Rules Clarification : Tactics vs Granted     (Edit) Granted = The unit loses the ability as soon as the model that grants it is taken off the table. (think "G for Goes away") Tactics = The unit keeps the ability for the entire game, regardless of who dies. (think "Tac-Tick = K for Keeps")   Granted [ Vengeance ] If the model granting Vengeance dies, the unit will not get any Vengeance attacks. It is "If you have Vengeance, and you were damaged last turn, you get a move+attack." It is not "If you get damaged, you get Vengeance next turn." If you lose Vengeance halfway through resolving Vengeance, then you stop resolving Vengeance immediately. (Infernal Ruling)

Rules Clarification : Pathfinder      (Edit) Pathfinder (Edit) - Pathfinder does not apply to involuntary movement (pushes & slams). (Infernal Ruling)

Rules Clarification : Poisoned Fate      (Edit) If Holden is put into play via Blood Bound, you don't get his Fate until next round. Rules Clarification : Bane ability - None yet. (Edit) Rules Clarification : Weaken - None yet. (Edit)

Rules Clarification : Prowl and/or Just a Tree?     (Edit) Whether you can trigger this ability is a bit awkward; As long as you have concealment you get Stealth ... even if the attacker ignores concealment (such as with Hunter). If you're standing in a cloud, and the attacker "ignores clouds for LOS" (such as Bird's Eye) you get Prowl/Tree. If you're standing in a cloud, and the attacker "ignores clouds completely" (such as Alchemical Mask) you don't get it. (Infernal Ruling) Similar for standing in a forest. If a debuff removes Stealth, Prowl/Tree do not reapply stealth... But this ruling is being rechecked. (Infernal Checking) Rules Clarification : Stealth      (Edit) Stealth models are not invisible and you can target them - you'll just auto-miss most of the time. You can target them with a charge. You can target them with an AOE, have it auto-miss and scatter, luckily land on top of them anyway, and that will hit them.

Rules Clarification : Sniper      (Edit) If you choose to do 1 point of damage, this is still considered to be damage "from an attack" for the purposes of Vengeance etc. (Locked thread)

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